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Single yellow line - School drop off, Redbridge Council
Captainships
post Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 10:40
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Hi guys,

I received a PCN whilst dropping my children off to the school gates. I was no more than 2 or 3 minutes and found the warden placing the ticket on the windshield. I tried explaining that I had to park there and that I had two small children with me who needed me to walk them to the school gates. The warden said that apparently only blue badge holders can do that.

I submitted a challenge on the 21 December. I've pasted below what I had sent. I received a rejection letter dated 20/01/23 which I have attached below (it didn't address some of the questions I asked).

Please can you advise if I should make a formal representation or pay the discounted amount that is on offer?

Many thanks.


Original PCN:
Attached Image


My challenge that was submitted:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I write to challenge PCN AF05349782 on the following grounds:

The alleged contravention did not occur as I was assisting my children to alight the vehicle, which is an exemption allowed by law. I have two young children who attend Cleveland Road primary school. And as you know, my car was near where Cleveland Road and Rutland Road intersect.

One of my children is only 3 and the other is 5. They are not old enough, nor is it safe, to let them walk by themselves from the car to the school entrance - especially as I will not be able to see them from the car (as the car was around the corner from where the gates are). I therefore had to assist them to get to the gates of the school. However, as I returned to my car, I found the Parking Attendant issuing me a ticket.

I explained to the Parking Attendant that I was dropping my very young children to school but he said that I can only do that if I displayed a Disability Blue Badge. I tried explaining to him that that was incorrect and that the law allows for boarding and alighting on single yellow lines. However he refused to listen. I know that the law allows for assisted alighting or boarding. You can check the following cases: London Borough of Southwark v Mrs D Wanambwa (case reference 2030235349) and Roy Gould v Shepway District Council (case reference SH045K).

I have also attached for your ease the relevant section of the highway code and some information from the TfL website - all stating that setting down or picking up are permitted activities on a single yellow line.

Finally I have also attached a screenshot of the primary school's website that shows the opening times of the gates.

In light of everything I have said and provided, please cancel this PCN.

If you do not cancel the PCN, I ask the Council to confirm if they agree with what the parking attendant said- that only Blue Badge holders have exemption to board and alight on single yellow lines. I also ask the Council to clarify (if the PCN isn't cancelled) is the Council's position that alighting/boarding, whether assisted or not, requires as a matter of law that the driver must stay by the vehicle.
Regards,


The challenge rejection letter:
Attached Image


Where my car was parked in relation to where the school gate drop off was:
Attached Image


School gate opening time evidence submitted with challenge:
Attached Image

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post Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 10:40
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Captainships
post Mon, 6 Mar 2023 - 10:17
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Thanks for the reminders. I submitted the rep last night.
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Mr Mustard
post Thu, 16 Mar 2023 - 11:59
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just checked on line, the representation was rejected. interested to see what nonsense they spout


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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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Mr Mustard
post Thu, 23 Mar 2023 - 14:35
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hello Captainships - lots of people give advice and like to know the whole story. Have you started a tribunal Appeal?


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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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Captainships
post Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 14:12
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Hi all,

I recieved the following Notice of Rejection on (dated) 13.03.23:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/0QvBRDJ

The letter says that when allowing passengers to board or alight, "the driver should not leave the vehicle".

Are they correct on this?

I haven't yet registered the appeal to the tribunals.
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cp8759
post Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 16:03
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QUOTE (Captainships @ Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 15:12) *
Are they correct on this?

No they are not, you could hardly just dump a newborn on the pavement and drive off.

It is generally accepted that primary school age children need to be accompanied by an adult, so if there's no other adults the driver would need to do that.

Mr Mustard has offered to represent you so I strongly suggest you take him up on that.


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Mr Mustard
post Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 16:08
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Yes, I'm ready OP.

Tribunal case 2160052312 is good on this (and Mr Houghton who made this decision is still adjudicating and greatly respected).

There seems to me no reason to doubt the Appellant’s evidence, now supported by a letter from his employers, that at the time the vehicle was observed waiting the Appellant was in the process of attempting to make contact with his passenger. The very brief observation period does nothing to suggest that any other activity was in progress. I am satisfied the Appellant was within the exemption relied on and the Appeal is therefore allowed.

The Council should note, and note carefully, that it is not the law that a driver may not leave the vehicle for this purpose (whatever the advice of the Public Carriage office might be). The leading case of R v The Parking Adjudicator on the application of Makda (2010) EWHV 3392(Admin) makes it clear that a PHV driver is permitted a reasonable time to identify the passenger, or to conclude that the passenger is not there, as that is a necessary part of the picking up process. There is nothing in that decision to require the driver to remain in the vehicle whilst doing so – something that in many situations would be impossible. The Council’s consideration of the representations in the light of a self-imposed limitation on the law would amount to a procedural impropriety and the Appeal would have fallen to be allowed for that reason alone

Also 2140369189

1)Mrs. Chopra, who was driving the car on the date of the alleged contravention, attended the Tribunal to present his appeal.

2)The civil enforcement officer (CEO), during a very brief observation of vehicle DX10OUM at around 07:41 on 7 July 2014, identified that it was parked on a single yellow line in Rodborough Road. There were also kerb markings indicating a loading restriction. This was at a time that both waiting and loading was prohibited. While preparing a penalty charge notice (PCN) the driver returned to the car and drove away. Barnet council served a postal PCN on Mr. Chopra, the registered keeper of the car.

3)Lambeth council has proved that the contravention occurred, and the correct procedure followed, so the burden is upon Mrs. Chopra to establish an exemption.

4)Mrs. Chopra explained to me, as she had previously to Barnet council, that she was dropping off her children to take the bus to their school. She can normally do that by just stopping and letting them leave the car. On this occasion she walked the short distance to the bus stop to help her son carry his three bags. She was absent from the car for no more than three minutes. As the CEO's observation is so short, it does not contradict Mrs. Chopra's account, which I accept.

5)The Traffic Management Order (TMO contains an exemption for a motorist to " … wait in any restricted street for so long as may be necessary for the purpose of enabling any person to board or alight from the vehicle or to load thereon or unload therefrom is personal luggage": Article 6 of the TMO. The exemption has been considered by the Administrative Court in a different context in the case of R (on the application of Makda) v The Parking Adjudicator [2010] EWHC 3392 (Admin), where Burnett J stated,

"26) Whether the time spent on that exercise in any given case was necessary is a question of fact. That will depend upon the myriad circumstances which can apply on the ground at the time."

6)Any passenger who leaves their car with a passenger, as Mrs. Chopra did here, runs the risk that they are taking themselves outside of the ambit of this exemption. However, given the age of her passengers and the overall circumstances of the incident, I am satisfied that she has brought herself within the exemption on this occasion. I allow the appeal.


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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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Captainships
post Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 21:02
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Mr. Mustang - thank you so much for your kind offer to represent. Please can you DM me what I need to do? Thanks
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Mr Mustard
post Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 21:35
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Please send me an unredacted copy of the Notice of Rejection to mrmustard@zoho.com


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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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Mr Mustard
post Wed, 12 Apr 2023 - 09:41
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Today I went on-line and started the Appeal at London Tribunals.

Grounds

1 Makda allows for leaving the vehicle

2 Failure to consider the assisted alighting properly is a procedural impropriety

3 The Notice to Owner does not state that the PCN when increased by 50% is £165, another procedural impropriety.


--------------------
All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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Mr Mustard
post Wed, 10 May 2023 - 08:51
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I filed the Grounds of Appeal on 12 April and was given an in-person hearing on 18 May (one of 6 for that day)




Just checking my cases for 18 May as only 8 days to go and so far I only have an evidence pack for three of the six cases. I check the tribunal website (nothing showing yet) and then the council website where I find that with a whimper the council have quietly cancelled. The message for other readers is that some councils will write anything, no matter how untrue, to try and get you to pay. The lack of an easily available mechanism to deal with their lies is why they can get away with it.



--------------------
All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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cp8759
post Wed, 10 May 2023 - 21:41
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Is the Notice of Rejection was wholly unreasonable, go for costs.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 10 May 2023 - 21:42


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