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Barking & Dagenham
PrinnyChi101
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 08:18
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Hi

I was issued a pcn via post by Barking and Dagenham council.
I was not the driver at the time.
The driver has explaoned to me that they was in the car at the time the ceo issued to pcn due to him waiting and parked with one or more wheels on a footpath.
There are not photos and also the day it happemed was 15.05.20 and i receievd the letter on the 26.05.20.

Please see the pcn for more info.

How do i attach images. The upload button seems to dissappear after clicking.

This post has been edited by PrinnyChi101: Thu, 28 May 2020 - 08:17
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post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 08:18
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stamfordman
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 08:47
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Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited.

It does not matter if there is someone in the car although we do like to see CEOs asking people to move on.


Barking and Dagenham is issuing a lot of pavement parking PCNs but it does allow pavement parking in a lot of streets and there is poor signage, so let's also see the location on google street view as well.
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PrinnyChi101
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 11:01
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https://ibb.co/tC8fpSn
https://ibb.co/wdTtKGH
https://ibb.co/pKpBFxN

Please let me know if you can see the images?

Ive just spoke to tje driver at the time and he stated he was not parked on the pavement. He was briefly dropping off a family memeber which was less than 2 minutes.
As he was about to leave the ceo wanted to get the number plate to give a pcn.

East street
https://ibb.co/1vk9bZ6
Url of the street
https://maps.app.goo.gl/G3k8DToCczi56LrV7
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 11:40
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Are you sure there are no photos? they could make a big difference.

If the spot is exactly as you say then I do not think the PCN is sustainable they is clearly the vehicular entrance to a pedestrian zone so must be carriageway

Then you must look to the definition of parked rather than that of wait.

Paras 52 53 and 54 in this case are helpful

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejv0ytejgnu4f57/O...202020.pdf?dl=0


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PrinnyChi101
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 17:17
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Yes no images. I can double check with the council. But on the pcn no images whatsoever dear.
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Neil B
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 17:30
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QUOTE (PrinnyChi101 @ Thu, 28 May 2020 - 09:18) *
There are not photos

On the B&D website?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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stamfordman
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 17:42
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Tis a drive-away so likely no pics.
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PrinnyChi101
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 18:31
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Ahh
Oh yes i forgot to check the site
Please see the images below
https://ibb.co/9qgSfdT
https://ibb.co/qY70Lfw
https://ibb.co/vJY09JC


It seems he was parked just abit on the pavement🤦🏽‍♀️
Any idea what to do in this case
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 18:43
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I don't think so I think it is carriageway albeit the surface has changed

The photos should have a date and time stamp, What is the date and time exactly?


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PrinnyChi101
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 19:10
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Im not too sure.
No time stamp can be seen and also not able to enlarge the image.

https://ibb.co/KxfM6Nz
https://ibb.co/f09B4zP
https://ibb.co/WpfgcTz



It just states on the pcn that it was observed at 12:22

This post has been edited by PrinnyChi101: Thu, 28 May 2020 - 19:12
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stamfordman
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 19:19
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If you PM me the details I'll download the pics properly (will hide number plate).
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PrinnyChi101
post Thu, 28 May 2020 - 19:38
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All done
Thank you
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stamfordman
post Fri, 29 May 2020 - 09:32
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Pics - two are of car being driven away I think. I presume the first one may be the car parked but maybe none of them are.







This post has been edited by stamfordman: Fri, 29 May 2020 - 09:34
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cp8759
post Fri, 29 May 2020 - 11:21
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Two possible was to look at this: the area in front of the pedestrian zone sign is a carriageway, otherwise you wouldn't need a sign informing the drivers of vehicles that they cannot drive down that road. Alternatively, you could say that this is an area of the footpath with a dropped kerb and a vehicle crossover, in which case the footpath is not interrupted by the crossover.

Really they should have issued for 01 as I think the stronger case is that this is carriageway.


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PrinnyChi101
post Fri, 29 May 2020 - 18:24
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Ok i will use that to appeal.

Thank you

Is there any template i cpuld use?

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stamfordman
post Fri, 29 May 2020 - 19:07
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We don't do templates. Draft something and post here and we will tweak.
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PrinnyChi101
post Sat, 30 May 2020 - 22:04
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Ok
Once completed I will post it on
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hcandersen
post Sun, 31 May 2020 - 07:41
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If the pedestrian zone sign is placed correctly, then the DYL are incorrectly placed.

If the DYL are correct, then the sign's wrongly located.

From the TSRGD:

2. An upright sign mentioned in paragraph 1 [this sign] must be placed as near as practicable to the point the restriction or prohibition begins or ends.

Also:

pedestrian zone”
an area—
(a)which has been laid out to improve amenity for pedestrians; and
(b)to which the entry of vehicles is prohibited or restricted

If the sign is placed at an 'entry' for vehicles, then it follows that vehicles must be permitted to be at this point. This contradicts the authority's view which is that the vehicle was situated on footway at this point.

I cannot see the authority giving way on this, other than to save face and avoid repercussions, so OP be prepared for a rejection.

And if the location is a carriageway spur off the main carriageway then even the DYL across its width are placed improperly, you cannot place DYL across a length of carriageway, only along its length.
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