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No Name on PCN
DotCom
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:10
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I rented a vehicle and received a PCN from TFL for parking on pavement. for some sort of reason the PCN has been sent to me under "The Company Secretary". i rent from Hertz on my private name and it seems there is a mistake from Hertz of TFL for not putting my name as the renter.
Is this PCN valid or does it have to have my name?
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post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:10
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DotCom
post Tue, 19 May 2020 - 17:32
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Sorry, for not uploading my representation, I didnt want to trouble and used the wording that was put here on the forum.

i have now posted the NoR again


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cp8759
post Tue, 19 May 2020 - 17:53
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OK I've started writing your appeal, please post up the representation you sent against the first PCN, the one addressed to "The Company Secretary"


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DotCom
post Tue, 19 May 2020 - 19:43
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I wrote to them the following

The PCN is a legal document and should be accurate as to its contents and to whom it is addressed. There is no company secretary at this address and the company that is registered at this address had never owned or hired this vehicle. there there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority and this PCN should be cancelled.
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DotCom
post Tue, 19 May 2020 - 20:06
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kindly note that i am now currently at stage to appeal only at adjudicator appeal
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hcandersen
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 13:08
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Which means what exactly?

We know you're at the appeal stage, you've received a NOR. The question is: what have you done?

If you've registered your appeal, what further comments did you add, do you have a hearing date and is it personal or on the papers?

My suggestion for your appeal, which probably goes against your grain, but hey ho:

On **** I hired a car, VRM *****, from Hertz. I hired this in my personal capacity for **** purposes;
I took possession on *** and returned it on ****;
The alleged contravention occurred on ****;
I am employed by *** as ***, part of my duties being to open mail;
The registered address of *** is ****, which is also my personal address;
On ***, I opened mail and found PCN ***** which was addressed to *****;
This showed that the contravention related to the car I had on hire at the time, see above;
I then allowed my knowledge of facts to cloud my judgement and immediately responded to the authority implicitly saying that as the offence could only have been committed by me then the PCN was addressed incorrectly;
(In my company role I know that Hertz have no customer record of the company and therefore how TfL managed to include Company Secretary within the address is still a mystery)
As both the company's and my private correspondence passed through my hands I am fully aware of the next events;
On ***, TfL responded to the Company Secretary that they had received correspondence from a third party(me) who lacked any apparent authority to respond to PCN ***; they undertook to hold enforcement to allow the company to regularise matters;
On the heels this correspondence, on *** I received a PCN addressed to me;
This PCN carried the same 'unique' reference number as the one dated *** addressed to the Company Secretary;
I made representations that clearly there must be a procedural impropriety as there is no provision within the regulations which allows:
Two PCNs to be issued and be contemporaneously extant;
Two PCNs to carry the same unique' PCN number.

Despite what I thought were obvious grounds - to the extent that I did not feel it necessary to expand on the primary point of procedural impropriety - the authority after 'having given my representations consideration' rejected these without any detailed reference to why my grounds did not hold.

Your witness TfL and good luck.

(probably you could throw in other points, but I don't like getting bogged down in secondary and even more minor issues: play you strongest hand first)
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cp8759
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 15:04
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Draft appeal: https://bit.ly/2Tp9veB

Replace the bits in red with your real name and the name of the company registered at your address, also put your real email address in the case history. Change all the text to black, and save as a PDF. Then register the appeal on the tribunal website, in the box that asks you for your grounds of appeal just write "see attached Grounds of Appeal".

I would not add any of the facts outlined by hcandersen as I think they would be counter-productive.


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hcandersen
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 16:31
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OP, I told you my approach went against the grain!

IMO, you must set a context because as much as anything else this matter started and continued through the coincidence that the matters involved you in your own name and you in your capacity within the company.

And why are we at 'draft appeal' stage without knowing whether you've even registered your appeal?

Keep us in the loop.

@cp ..'agent and employee'?

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Wed, 20 May 2020 - 16:33
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Longtime Lurker
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 18:00
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cp8759 do you think it would it be worth adding:

Ground 3: Procedural Impropriety: This PCN has already been successfully appealed.

In the event that the council's evidence pack does contain evidence that an earlier regulation 10 penalty charge notice relating to the same contravention has been cancelled, sufficient to convince the adjudicator that the requirements of regulation 10(5)(b) or [c] have been satisfied as discussed above, I invite the adjudicator to compare the the PCN number on that evidence and the one in this case. If they are identical then the respondent is barred from continuing enforcement by virtue of having already accepted an appeal.

This post has been edited by Longtime Lurker: Wed, 20 May 2020 - 18:00
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DotCom
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 18:55
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With this NoR I recieved the request of an appeal with the Traffic Adjudicators. Should I request a personal or postal? And do I write the above detail in the details of the Panel on the reverse of the form?

With this NoR I recieved the request of an appeal with the Traffic Adjudicators. Should I request a personal or postal? And do I write the above detail in the details of the Panel on the reverse of the form?
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hcandersen
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 21:01
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At this stage, you simply register your appeal.

Request a personal hearing if you wish, but IMO this is unnecessary as the objective facts ( except of course any evidence of your status within the company, or is it companies?) are in play and in the main they're not yours, they're the authority's.
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cp8759
post Sun, 24 May 2020 - 01:00
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QUOTE (Longtime Lurker @ Wed, 20 May 2020 - 19:00) *
cp8759 do you think it would it be worth adding:

Ground 3: Procedural Impropriety: This PCN has already been successfully appealed.

In the event that the council's evidence pack does contain evidence that an earlier regulation 10 penalty charge notice relating to the same contravention has been cancelled, sufficient to convince the adjudicator that the requirements of regulation 10(5)(b) or [c] have been satisfied as discussed above, I invite the adjudicator to compare the the PCN number on that evidence and the one in this case. If they are identical then the respondent is barred from continuing enforcement by virtue of having already accepted an appeal.

No, I would wait and see what the council submits and if it adduces any such evidence, I would deal with it by means of a further submission.

QUOTE (DotCom @ Wed, 20 May 2020 - 19:55) *
With this NoR I recieved the request of an appeal with the Traffic Adjudicators. Should I request a personal or postal? And do I write the above detail in the details of the Panel on the reverse of the form?

I would go for postal. Forget about the form, register the appeal online at https://londontribunals.org.uk/ using the link "Create a new appeal", then upload the document I prepared for you in post 86 above.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sun, 24 May 2020 - 01:01


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DotCom
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 06:08
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Thanks for preparing the appeal cp8759.

I tried doing it online but received the following error message;

The Environment and Traffic Adjudicators does not accept online appeals for tickets issued by Transport for London. You should complete the appeal form sent to you with the notice of rejection and post to London Tribunals, PO Box 10598, NOTTINGHAM, NG6 6DR.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 10:50
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QUOTE (DotCom @ Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 07:08) *
Thanks for preparing the appeal cp8759.

I tried doing it online but received the following error message;

The Environment and Traffic Adjudicators does not accept online appeals for tickets issued by Transport for London. You should complete the appeal form sent to you with the notice of rejection and post to London Tribunals, PO Box 10598, NOTTINGHAM, NG6 6DR.


Give the tribunal a call I think they are accepting by e mail ATM


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cp8759
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 21:10
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 11:50) *
Give the tribunal a call I think they are accepting by e mail ATM

+1


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DotCom
post Sun, 28 Jun 2020 - 05:24
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Thanks to all> especially to cp8759

received Saturday in the post a letter from TFL

We have recently received notification of your appeal against the above mentioned PCN for vehicle ****** from London Tribunals.
We have reviewed the issue of the PCN and the handling of your representation. As a result it has come to our attention that an administrative error occurred in the processing of the representation and we will not be contesting this appeal.
We have decided that the PCN will be cancelled now and no further action will be taken. We apologise for any inconvenience that may have been caused.
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whatever
post Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 10:31
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Read the thread as it has some relevance to a PCN I've just received. So pleased for you Dot Com that you got it cancelled.
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