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Summons Expected - Please help!
Aims84
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 12:27
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Hi All

I received the NIP for a speeding offence dated 9th Dec. The offence was 47mph in a 40 limit, caught by a mobile unit. I wrote Thames Valley a letter saying please can I see the evidence as both myself and my dad were driving that day back and forth along that particular stretch of road. They sent me 2 photo's, neither could identify the driver so I wrote them a letter saying the photo's don't help me establish who was driving and that myself and my dad had been working through the times and can make the reasonable assumption it may have been him driving but asked for any additional photo's etc that may be able to confirm that (I didn't want to identify my dad and then receive a further photo which clearly shows its me and be in more trouble) but filled out the NIP will my dad's details as per his request. I have now just received a letter back saying the following:

'Dear Madam

I refer to the notice of intended prosecution/section 172 road traffic act 1988 form sent to you recently in relation to an alleged traffic offence.

In light of your most recent correspondence I am unable to provide any further information that would help in resolving this matter. There is currently no fixed penalty procedure in respect of cases where the keeper of the vehicle is unable to provide information to identify the driver. The file will therefore now be forwarded to the Summons Production Unit who will in due course issue a summons against the registered keeper or nominated user. The offence for which the summons will be issued is detailed at the foot of the notice of intended prosecution.

I am sorry I cannot assist you further'


What can I do as I genuinely do now know who was driving at that particular time but my dad is leaning towards it being him. In hindsight I should have just filled the NIP with dad's details but was genuinely worried in case another photo showed me and I could have been heavily fined!

I don't have any valid points (picked up 3 about 5 years ago) and neither does my dad.

How should I handle this? Is it worth ringing the fixed penalty support unit?

Thank you

Aimee
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post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 12:27
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Logician
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 12:38
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I should write them a letter saying that further information has now been provided by your father which enables you to state with certainty that he was the driver. Do it at once and you might head off the summons. He is quite likely to be offered a speed awareness course, but the delay does not work in his favour.


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Pete D
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 12:38
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No wonder they are cpnfused. You send them a completed NIP and ask for photo's to confirm who is driving.

It sounds like they are going to summons you with 'Failing to Furnish' this will be 6 points and a large, large fine. You should have come to this forum before communicating with the scamera unit. Pete D

This post has been edited by Pete D: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 12:45
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johnjo42
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 12:42
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QUOTE (Aims84 @ Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 12:27) *
What can I do as I genuinely do NOW know who was driving at that particular time but my dad is leaning towards it being him.

If the word "now" really means "now" then you should contact them ASAP and say that having made further enquiries you now know that your father was driving. You may get away with it but you have made things difficult by giving a "maybe" reply.
If the word "now" really means "not", you need to double check with your father and if you are both sure that he was driving, then proceed as above.
You may be too late and they may issue a summons for failing to identify the driver in which case they MAY amend it to speeding but only against you. If not, you will have to prove that you did not know who was driving and satisfy the reasonable diligence test otherwise it's 6 points.
The moral from this is that it is best to seek advice before you act rather than afterwards
JJ
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Aims84
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 12:44
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I completed the NIP but said in the letter without any further evidence to the contrary my father believes it was him and so please find completed NIP, if I had said it was him and they had another photo which showed the driver more clearly and that was me what would have happened then? How could I win in that situation?

Sorry yes i did mean NOT know who was driving
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johnjo42
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 12:49
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QUOTE (Aims84 @ Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 12:44) *
How could I win in that situation?

You couldn't. You should only ask for the photo if there is a real doubt as to who was driving. You should make your enquiries with all potential drivers first. If you ask for the photo, you must not give any doubtful information but simply ask for the photo to help you to identify the driver. (Don't use the word "evidence")
Once you've got the photo you THEN reply to the notice (within the 28 days)
JJ
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Aims84
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 12:58
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I did ask for photographs after receiving the NIP stating 'as myself and my father were driving that day' it was only when the photo's arrived i replied saying they still don't help me identify the driver but my dad believes it is him.
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Pete D
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 13:00
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Your letter was not unequivocal, it cast doubt even with a completed NIP. Try another letter as has been suggested but it must be unequivocal. A straight statement of fact, no if's or buts. Pete D

This post has been edited by Pete D: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 13:14
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Aims84
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 13:35
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Am I not able to view the video from the mobile unit?

What is the due diligence test when I go to court?
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Gan
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 13:55
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You don't get to see any evidence unless you've pleaded Not Guilty to an offence.

There isn't a clear test of due diligence and you can only list all the things you did to try and identify the driver.

It doesn't help after a summons but it has been suggested that one approach is to contact the police and ask what else you can do or invite them to interview the drivers.
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Pete D
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 14:01
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Yes many scamera units allow you to view the video by appointment. However I suspect the door is closed now, but you can try. Reasonable Diligence is 'all' that you have done to identify the driver. Jouneys, reciepts, phone calls, discussions with your father, who went where when, filling the car with petrol, may be a CCTV in the garage could have helped you. Pete D
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Aims84
post Sat, 19 Feb 2011 - 14:25
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Thank you for your help everyone, it's a learning curve but it seems when you really can't determine who was driving (it turns out the mobile unit was on the other side of the dual carriageway so neither of us noticed) you are going to get done over one way or the other. I will try giving the police a call on Monday and see if there is anyting else I can do, it's worth a try. I am hesitant to write a letter saying it is definitely my dad as I genuinely don't know and sod's law the video footage will show the driver much more clearly than the photo's and I will get convicted of something much more extreme.
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