Wandsworth pcn 16 Options

[torenaga]

Hi there everyone.

My mother got a ticket the other day when she parked in a disabled bay. This was by accident as she has a residents permit to park on this street and did not realise this was a disabled bay, as the marking and lines are so badly damaged. If she had known she would of parked anywhere on the street as her permit covers this street.
The disabled sign on the floor is badly worn and damaged that it can't even be read.
There is a pole with the sign saying 'disabled badge only' but she did not see it as she has parked plenty of times on this road and knew her permit would cover this road.

What do you guys think would be her best way of approach with this fine, should she appeal to Wandsworth just saying it was a genuine mistake or should she appeal on the basis of the badly damaged road marking?

Thank you

fine 2 by breeze breeze, on Flickr

fine 1 by breeze breeze, on Flickr

20190320_185132 by breeze breeze, on Flickr

20190320_185134 by breeze breeze, on Flickr

fine front_ edited20190321_0001 by breeze breeze, on Flickr

fine back_20190321_0001 by breeze breeze, on Flickr

Just realized i have put this in the wrong forum.
Moderator can this please be moved to the council forum please.

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[Gert]

This PCN is unenforceable as the TMO provides for disabled permit (blue badge) parking bays but the actual signed space parked in is a dedicated disabled permit only.

The sign is not supported by the TMO. Therefore the PCN must be cancelled as signs and lines error.

Have you got a copy of the TMO you can share with us?

I went off Mick's post of 22 May 2019 on the basis it was the basis of the TMO.

[cp8759]

This PCN is unenforceable as the TMO provides for disabled permit (blue badge) parking bays but the actual signed space parked in is a dedicated disabled permit only.

The sign is not supported by the TMO. Therefore the PCN must be cancelled as signs and lines error.

Have you got a copy of the TMO you can share with us?

I went off Mick's post of 22 May 2019 on the basis it was the basis of the TMO.

But the actual TMO might be correct for all we know. I think the next logical step is for torenaga to ask the council for the Traffic Management Order.

[torenaga]

Ok, do you know who and how I have to request it with?

This post has been edited by torenaga: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 13:35

[cp8759]

You'll need to ask the council's highways department (not parking enforcement), you can't use an FOI request as that'll take far too long.

[torenaga]

Thank you for your reply cp8759.

Do I ask for a TMO for the street or is it a TMO for parking regulations in general in Wandsworth?

Sorry, I have never done this before.

[cp8759]

TMO for parking restrictions on that street.

[torenaga]

Ok thank you cp

[torenaga]

This is the reply I got from Wandsworth council from the request I sent them. What should I say it is for? or is it that i have sent the request to the wrong department?

Official




Dear

In your form below you have stated ‘Request for a Traffic management order (TMO) for Gilbey road sw17 please’



Could you confirm why you need a traffic order and what this is for? So I can direct you to the relevant application form/process.



Kind Regards



Craig Roberts

Network Coordinator

Wandsworth Council

Environment & Community Services

www.wandsworth.gov.uk

[Irksome]

None of their business what you want it for - its a public document and you want a copy!

Sounds like the request has gone to the wrong department - you need Highways.

[torenaga]

I have looked everywhere on their website but could only find the contact that i sent the request on.

[cp8759]

Quick google search returned these details:

Tel 020 8871 6708 Email highways@wandsworth.gov.uk

Maybe give them a call and see what they say.

[torenaga]

Thank you cp, I had replied back just requesting the TMO but they have not got back to me. It was definitely the highways department,
I will give them a call.

Thank you

My mistake, just checked and it was street signs and environment.

This post has been edited by torenaga: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 - 10:12

[torenaga]

Hi guys,

So i have sent off to the highways and they have still not responded. I tried to call the number but it rings once then the line cuts out.
The deadline for the discount period is coming up so i'm starting to panic a bit now, was there anything else i could appeal on, other than the contravention being the wrong one?

Thanks guys.

[cp8759]

I would do two things at this point:

1) Make an informal representation on the basis that they've used the wrong contravention, even if they reject they are likely to re-offer the discount.
2) Make an FOI request for the TMO, it will take up to 20 working days but should still come back in time to be useful.

[torenaga]

Even though I have already made an appeal and they rejected?

What is it i should write? Is it the case that the contravention did not occur or that the contravention given is invalid?

Thank you in advance

This post has been edited by torenaga: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 - 17:23

[cp8759]

I had not noticed you'd already had a response, that being the case it would be pointless to write again. It's therefore now down to your attitude to risk, you could challenge at the NtO stage on the same basis and there's a good chance that even if they reject, they'll re-offer the discount anyway, though this cannot be guaranteed.

[torenaga]

Thank you for the reply CP.

Hmmm if it was my fine i would risk it, but as it is my mothers then I think I will just pay it for her I think. (decisions decisions)
Considering how bad the road marking is I thought we could of beaten this case easily. Would an adjudicator see my point with the road markings or is it just a thing of risking it?
Don't want to stress her out any more over this.

Thank for all the replies guys, much appreciated.

This post has been edited by torenaga: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 - 16:38

[cp8759]

Well you're not at the adjudication stage yet: first they must serve a Notice to Owner, then you challenge, then if they reject you need to decide whether to appeal to the tribunal. There's always a chance the council might mess up the process along the way and hand you an easy win. We cannot give you a cast iron guarantee the council will re-offer the discount at the next stage, but that's what normally happens.

At the same time, there's always a chance (however small) that the council might accept formal representations and cancel at the Notice to Owner stage, so on balance I would suggest you carry on.

[torenaga]

Ok, so I'm going to go for it then.
Shall i just wait for NTO now or send another appeal to the council.
Sorry for all the questions.

Thank you

[cp8759]

If you're going to carry on just wait for the Notice to Owner. The only thing to do in the meantime is check that the V5C address is up to date (don't assume, physically check it).