Reasonable Excuse |
Reasonable Excuse |
Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 13:15
Post
#1
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 175 Joined: 14 Oct 2008 From: Lancashire Member No.: 23,249 |
I have evicted a tenant from one of my properties for non-payment of rent.
I have a judgement, by default, against them for the monies owed (circa £8,000) I have no forwarding address only a phone number which is answered sporadically. He has made no arrangements to forward post. Will I be committing an offence if I open their mail? I believe I have "reasonable excuse" as I would like to find details of his employer or other addresses to try and recoup the debt. The Post Services Act 2000, Section 84 Interfering with the mail: general. (1)A person commits an offence if, without reasonable excuse, he— (a)intentionally delays or opens a postal packet in the course of its transmission by post, or (b)intentionally opens a mail-bag. (2)Subsections (2) to (5) of section 83 apply to subsection (1) above as they apply to subsection (1) of that section. (3)A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him. (4)Subsections (2) and (3) of section 83 (so far as they relate to the opening of postal packets) apply to subsection (3) above as they apply to subsection (1) of that section. (5)A person who commits an offence under subsection (1) or (3) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to both.Section 84 |
|
|
Advertisement |
Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 13:15
Post
#
|
Advertise here! |
|
|
|
Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 13:21
Post
#2
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Whether that would be a reasonable excuse or not would be for a court to determine, I don't know if there's any relevant case law. However for that level of debt, I wouldn't bother. Just get a tracing agent to find him and his employer (such as traceadebt.co.uk, other firms are available), then either apply for an attachment to earning order or send the High Court Enforcement Officers his way. If you pick the firm Channel 5 uses, he might even end up on "Can't Pay? They'll Take it Away".
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 13:34
Post
#3
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
You always have to ask whether or not you can get anything out of them before throwing good money after bad.
If employed, attachment of earnings should get something. If unemployed, quite possibly on a hiding to nothing. |
|
|
Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 13:54
Post
#4
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Once delivered you can open the mail.
I'd be inclined to send it back 'return to sender, not known this address' unless it looks particularly juicy. Once used a rented accommodation where a previous tenant was a right scum bag, bailiffs and private debts all over, he made the mistake of using the address again when applying for a mortgage so we could pass on his solicitors details and intended purchase house details on to those he owed money to. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 14:12
Post
#5
|
||||
Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
Once delivered you can open the mail. How do you reconcile that sweeping statement with what section 84(3) of the Postal Services Act 2000 says? -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
|
|||
|
||||
Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 14:21
Post
#6
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
(3)A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 14:49
Post
#7
|
||||
Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
(3)A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him. Yes, I know what it says. But it doesn't just say "Once delivered you can open the mail", does it? -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
|
|||
|
||||
Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 15:43
Post
#8
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Does the intention to recover £8000 count as "to the person's detriment" ?
I would use a tracing service such as DirectRoute that will typically charge £70 + VAT no-find-no-fee Used to know a guy that ran one of the companies Most people can be found in a few minutes with the right databases Ken found one by phoning the target's mother |
|
|
Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 15:49
Post
#9
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 3,300 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
|
|
|
Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 17:39
Post
#10
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
You have to ask what likelihood you have of recovering the money.
If he has a job attachment of earnings is the way to go. If he is unemployed or cash in hand with few belongings than even court bailiffs will struggle. You can't seize a share of nothing even if you have an address. |
|
|
Fri, 30 Mar 2018 - 22:02
Post
#11
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
|
|
|
Sat, 31 Mar 2018 - 00:41
Post
#12
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Does the intention to recover £8000 count as "to the person's detriment" ? Paying a lawful debt is not to anyone's "detriment", I would think. --Churchmouse A court might think differently. A debtor might rationally have chosen to prioritise certain debts (say council tax) and opening someone's post to enforce payment of a civil debt may well be to the debtor's detriment. Given there are lawful ways of getting the information (some tracing agents have a no-trace no fee service for under £40), I don't see why you'd risk it. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Sat, 31 Mar 2018 - 08:31
Post
#13
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
Does the intention to recover £8000 count as "to the person's detriment" ? Paying a lawful debt is not to anyone's "detriment", I would think. --Churchmouse A court might think differently. A debtor might rationally have chosen to prioritise certain debts (say council tax) and opening someone's post to enforce payment of a civil debt may well be to the debtor's detriment. Given there are lawful ways of getting the information (some tracing agents have a no-trace no fee service for under £40), I don't see why you'd risk it. A court might. But not only must it find that paying a lawful debt is to the debtor's detriment (which I think is questionable), the person opening the mail must also have had no "reasonable excuse" for doing so. More words ripe for judicial interpretation, but seeking to recover a lawful debt does not sound "unreasonable" to me. --Churchmouse |
|
|
Sat, 31 Mar 2018 - 11:36
Post
#14
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
A court might. But not only must it find that paying a lawful debt is to the debtor's detriment (which I think is questionable), the person opening the mail must also have had no "reasonable excuse" for doing so. More words ripe for judicial interpretation, but seeking to recover a lawful debt does not sound "unreasonable" to me. --Churchmouse I guess some people are more willing to risk their good character than others. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Sat, 31 Mar 2018 - 15:15
Post
#15
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 6,178 Joined: 1 Jan 2013 From: Glasgow Member No.: 59,097 |
|
|
|
Sat, 31 Mar 2018 - 15:17
Post
#16
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
his way. If you pick the firm Channel 5 uses, he might even end up on "Can't Pay? They'll Take it Away". IRO that programme it always amazes me in the cases where rent is involved why landlords allow arrears to build up to the levels they do. High rents x the time it takes to get a possession order. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
|
|
Sat, 31 Mar 2018 - 15:50
Post
#17
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
his way. If you pick the firm Channel 5 uses, he might even end up on "Can't Pay? They'll Take it Away". IRO that programme it always amazes me in the cases where rent is involved why landlords allow arrears to build up to the levels they do. What amazes me a lot more is this: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/...ages-high-court Not because of the outcome, but because I had assumed after filming someone from the production crew would says "sign this bit of paper and I'll give you £500 cash", given the circumstances these people find themselves in, it's hard to imagine anyone turning them down. This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 - 15:50 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Sat, 31 Mar 2018 - 17:07
Post
#18
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 175 Joined: 14 Oct 2008 From: Lancashire Member No.: 23,249 |
|
|
|
Sun, 1 Apr 2018 - 10:08
Post
#19
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
A court might. But not only must it find that paying a lawful debt is to the debtor's detriment (which I think is questionable), the person opening the mail must also have had no "reasonable excuse" for doing so. More words ripe for judicial interpretation, but seeking to recover a lawful debt does not sound "unreasonable" to me. --Churchmouse I guess some people are more willing to risk their good character than others. Good character for not paying debts? --Churchmouse |
|
|
Sun, 1 Apr 2018 - 13:04
Post
#20
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
A court might. But not only must it find that paying a lawful debt is to the debtor's detriment (which I think is questionable), the person opening the mail must also have had no "reasonable excuse" for doing so. More words ripe for judicial interpretation, but seeking to recover a lawful debt does not sound "unreasonable" to me. --Churchmouse I guess some people are more willing to risk their good character than others. Good character for not paying debts? --Churchmouse No I meant good character as in avoiding the risk of a conviction under the Postal Services Act 2000 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 09:21 |