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Excel help
NIPped_again
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:45
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Hi

I need some help to understand my options. The driver parked the car in an excel carpark. The driver bought a ticket and parked on a disabled bay. The driver had there disabled mother in law with them but she did not have her disabled badges. This was 27/12/18


The car is a lease car and some time later I received an admin charge from the lease company and today I have received an NTD letter.

Reading about other cases I’m not sure if the legality of Excel requesting the lease company details from the DVLA or the legality of them providing my details to Excel. The driver was not displaying her disabled badge but it feels wrong for them to have been fined for this. Can I appeal if I can show a photo of the disabled badge?

Any help would be great!

Thanks

******

This post has been edited by NIPped_again: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 19:27
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post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:45
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Jlc
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:49
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Yes, they can access the DVLA and the lease company can provide your details.

You can appeal with what you like but they will reject.

I would guess the signs say the badge had to be displayed?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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NIPped_again
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:52
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/96r816lverv0dv3/P...0%2027%2032.jpg


https://www.dropbox.com/s/96r816lverv0dv3/P...0%2027%2032.jpg

QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:49) *
Yes, they can access the DVLA and the lease company can provide your details.

You can appeal with what you like but they will reject.

I would guess the signs say the badge had to be displayed?



Hi

Yes the signs say a badge must be displayed unfortunately

Thanks



This post has been edited by NIPped_again: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:51
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ostell
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 22:14
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Edit your fist post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. Use "the driver ....." etc.. Most important, DO IT NOW

Why have you posted the windscreen ticket twice? If the other one was meant to be a Notice to Keeper/Hirer then reload and make sure it is redacted.

Are you sure it's a NTD letter? I suspect it was a Notice to Hirer letter. Did that Notice to Hirer include copies of the rental agreement and a copy of the original Notice to Keeper addressed to the lease company? Probably not, very few PPCs do and as such they cannot hold the hirer/keeper liable for the charge, only the unknown driver. Hence the importance of that edit. If you don't edit you may be dragging defeat out of the jaws of victory.

If there were no attachments then the appeal will be:

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.


Post so that it arrives on day 19 after the date on the letter so that they can't issue a compliant one. First class post and free certificate of posting from a post office.


The charge from the lease company is a different matter. What does your lease say about charging for penalties and fines and what does it say about invoices from private parking companies? If it's only penalties and fines etc then they have no reason to charge that fee.

This post has been edited by ostell: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 22:20
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NIPped_again
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 19:24
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Hi

Thanks for the help! Find the NTD below, copy pasted the wrong link before

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7a2cpugdww00l8p/P...9%2021.jpg?dl=0

I did not receive a notice to hirer or any other documents along with the NTD. Given I did not receive a notice to hirer does the above template still hold true? It is a long term personal lease contract.

Thanks again



This post has been edited by NIPped_again: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 20:14
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ostell
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 20:18
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Someone is lying, the lease company weren't there so how can they know who was driving? Or Excel are trying to confuse the issue.

Nevertheless it was a lease car without the documents supplied so send that appeal I suggested
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NIPped_again
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 21:26
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 20:18) *
Someone is lying, the lease company weren't there so how can they know who was driving? Or Excel are trying to confuse the issue.

Nevertheless it was a lease car without the documents supplied so send that appeal I suggested


I am assuming the lease company provided lease holder details and the parking company then assumed the lease holder was driving or cocked up the form they should use. Either way I’m not personally lying.
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ostell
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 22:54
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Not accusing you, far from it, assumptions don't work for this, they have to show who the driver was or conform to POFA.

Yes the lease company provided your details as the hirer. Which lease company was it?
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NIPped_again
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 06:32
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Thanks, it is leased from the manufacturer. When the lease company wrote to me it was just an invoice for the admin fee
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ostell
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 07:58
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So what does the lease say about charges? Does it say, as many do, an admin fee for handling penalties and fines? This is not a penalty or a fine, it is a mere speculative invoice. So the item is not in their T&C's and therefore should not be charged for. But this is another argument for later when you can go back and show that the invoice was cancelled

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 07:59
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NIPped_again
post Tue, 12 Mar 2019 - 18:54
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I sent the letter as recommended and now a few weeks later I receive a Hirer Notification. On its own with no reference to the letter I sent to them. I know it was received as I sent itrecoded delivery

They still haven’t sent me the correspondience with the lease company

What should I do next?

Thanks

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ostell
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 08:54
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So you write back to them and point out that they have ignored the previous letter they sent and this latest letter averring to be a Notice to Hirer has been served outside of the 21 day relevant period to hold the hirer/keeper liable, as well as their failure again to provide the additional documents required by 14 (2) (a) of POFA.

Point out that this continuing correspondence when they have already failed to show you are liable amounts harassment and suggest they read the outcome of Ferguson v British Gas before continuing with this matter
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NIPped_again
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 12:51
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I now have a letter also claiming they did not cite POFA

Can they do that?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fa73vesn1tyg0m1/P...6%2031.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k142b5f1tzku0cs/P...8%2033.jpg?dl=0

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ostell
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 13:51
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OK then just wait. You have the important letter stating that they are not invoking POFA. They cannot assume that the hirer was the keeper.

I would just sit on it for the time being.
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NIPped_again
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 14:32
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Hi

Thanks for the help

If they are not inlong POFA what can they legally do next and what is my legal position. Option 4 (do nothing) must have some ramification to one of the parties

Thanks!!
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bearclaw
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 15:29
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Option 4...?

IS that in fact a letter before claim that you have?
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NIPped_again
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 22:53
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The letter came today, the notice to hirer yesterday.

Option 4 I made up. The letter mentions three option. Option 4 is do nothing
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