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Parked in disabled ticket
boulbysaur
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 22:31
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Got a letter sent to the drivers ex employer for a company car the driver used to have for parking in a disabled bay.
Not something the driver would normally do, can't remember if the driver had their nan with them or not?
Genuinely can't say they remember if they had or not as the date of the alleged offence was 4/11/18.
Issue date is 3/1/19

Either way they definetly didn't have anything stuck on the windscreen so this is the first they know about it. .

It has been sent to ex employer who they left on the 1st of January, unfortunately they aren't going to be very helpful with the situation they left for a competitor.

Not sure if to pay it or not with the hassle

File attached

Attached File  Scan_Reduced.pdf ( 872.99K ) Number of downloads: 25


This post has been edited by boulbysaur: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 22:50
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post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 22:31
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ostell
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 22:39
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Edit the post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. Use "the driver......."

With that Notice To Hirer did you get copies of the hire agreement and the original Notice to Keeper that was sent to the Registered keeper? Probably not, they never do.

If that paperwork is not there then:

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.



Send this so that it arrives at VCS 19 days after the date on the letter so that they will not have time to issue a compliant NTH. First class post with a free certificate of posting from a Post Office

There are other errors on that notice but this is the main one

This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 22:40
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boulbysaur
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 22:54
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I think that's all that came, not 100% sure but I'll try find out. Just got it emailed over to me saying sort this.

19 days after the issue date?

Also who's address do I put in the letter? The company address and not my own.
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ostell
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 22:54
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Do that edit !!

There is an extended time with hire cars.

So is the NTH in your name or your ex employers name?

The paperwork is normally not there.

If you've left, and presumably been paid, then what would they do if you didn't pay? Appeal themselves with that letter is the answer.
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boulbysaur
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 22:57
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 22:54) *
Do that edit !!

There is an extended time with hire cars.

So is the NTH in your name or your ex employers name?

The paperwork is normally not there.

If you've left, and presumably been paid, then what would they do if you didn't pay? Appeal themselves with that letter is the answer.


Done the edit it didn't save at first.

It's in my ex employer name, addressed to the limited company.

I'm guessing if I didn't sort it they will name the driver.
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 23:00
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Anyway the appellant will also have to enclose with that appeal:

- a copy of the relative's Blue Badge and state that it is believed a grandparent was in the car with the driver and here is their BB, and they can't understand why VCS' ticketer didn't see it and the appellant wants to see all photos taken of the car the dashboard, any other part of the car and the signage

- the email from the Ltd company that says 'sort it' as proof that they have been authorised to appeal this PCN which is not addressed to them.

Make sure the appellant only refers to the parking event in a way that doesn't imply who parked (be careful with adding words to ostell's template about the BB) and make sure the appellant includes their full name and postal address, to make sure all letters come to them in future. Takes the Ltd company out of the equation.

The employer Ltd Company were meant to name the hirer/keeper to transfer liability to that person. Why don't they know this...
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The Rookie
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 03:55
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QUOTE (boulbysaur @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 23:57) *
I'm guessing if I didn't sort it they will name the driver.

How can they name the driver? They were in the passenger seat?

Otherwise all they can name is the person keeping the vehicle that day.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Redivi
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 07:42
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If the OP responds to VCS in his own name, it will pursue him as the driver

He could send the text of Ostell's challenge to the employer as a draft for it to send
As well as the BB comments, perhaps mention that the driver was not on company business and Combined Parking Services v AJH Films Ltd does not apply
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boulbysaur
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 08:49
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I've got a feeling that my ex employer won't be very helpful in the matter and state that said person was the driver.
Especially as I think they had great satisfaction handing this over for me to deal with. Bit of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
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Redivi
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 09:54
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You could challenge it in the company's name but provide your address for correspondence

Send it copies of everything

This post has been edited by Redivi: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 09:59
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The Rookie
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 09:59
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QUOTE (boulbysaur @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 09:49) *
state that said person was the driver.

Again....
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 04:55) *
QUOTE (boulbysaur @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 23:57) *
I'm guessing if I didn't sort it they will name the driver.

How can they name the driver? They were in the passenger seat?

Otherwise all they can name is the person keeping the vehicle that day.


Get your ex-employer to name you as 'the keeper' and then reply as 'the keeper'.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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ostell
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 10:00
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No, you are not stuck between a rock and a hard place, they are. They cannot state that you were the driver, they were not there to know, you were merely the keeper at the time. If they do not respond correctly then they will be liable for the charge.

If it is addressed to the company send this slightly modified appeal to the ex employer as a draft and suggest that they sign it and send to VCS. Point out that if they do not then they will remain liable for the charge.

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

We are the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. We have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to us the hirer keeper..

As a body corporate we could not have been driving and there is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and we will not be doing so.

Any further communication with us on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and our details have been removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.


Inform them of the do not send until instructions.

This post has been edited by ostell: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 10:01
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