PCN Derby Bus Lane in Phoenix Street, Tickets are the worse Options

[Bella908070]

Hi,

I got a bus lane ticket while in Derby and I was forced to turn left and realized right away it was a bus lane but it was a one way street and I didn’t want to reverse as there were incoming cars. Any chance I can fight this? It was really dark at the time so that didn’t help either.

date: 6/1/2018
time: 16:30

The video was just pitch black but it showed me driving through withought stopping and no signs.

This post has been edited by Bella908070: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 23:36

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

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[Neil B]

Restore the dates and times please.

[PASTMYBEST]

We need the dates and also a GSV.

Two things spring to mind. Vague location. It is accepted by adjudicators that the location must be clear. If you were not the driver and received that PCN how could you know a contraventionoccured.

The regulations say that they must accept a payment discounted by 50% 0f paid within 14 days and this must be on the PCN. This PCN states you have 21 days. That is only at best a boon given by the authority with no legal basis.

On day 15 they could demand the full penalty,

[Bella908070]

We need the dates and also a GSV.

Two things spring to mind. Vague location. It is accepted by adjudicators that the location must be clear. If you were not the driver and received that PCN how could you know a contraventionoccured.

The regulations say that they must accept a payment discounted by 50% 0f paid within 14 days and this must be on the PCN. This PCN states you have 21 days. That is only at best a boon given by the authority with no legal basis.

On day 15 they could demand the full penalty,

I was the driver. They also stated that if I were to fight this, they would allow me diffident time to pay the discounted amount.

[DancingDad]

This is the one end
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9256544,-...3312!8i6656
Not one way though ??

[Neil B]

We still don't know the date of this PCN?

They also stated that if I were to fight this, they would allow me diffident time to pay the discounted amount.

Who is 'they'?

and didn't understand the rest of that sentence?

[Bella908070]

This is the one end
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9256544,-...3312!8i6656
Not one way though ??

I went through the other end

We still don't know the date of this PCN?

They also stated that if I were to fight this, they would allow me diffident time to pay the discounted amount.

Who is 'they'?

and didn't understand the rest of that sentence?

The dates have been updated
They as in the council. If your representations are rejected the council will generally extend the period within which the reduced penalty charge may be paid.

[PASTMYBEST]

We need the dates and also a GSV.

Two things spring to mind. Vague location. It is accepted by adjudicators that the location must be clear. If you were not the driver and received that PCN how could you know a contraventionoccured.

The regulations say that they must accept a payment discounted by 50% 0f paid within 14 days and this must be on the PCN. This PCN states you have 21 days. That is only at best a boon given by the authority with no legal basis.

On day 15 they could demand the full penalty,

I was the driver. They also stated that if I were to fight this, they would allow me diffident time to pay the discounted amount.

It doesn't matter that you were the driver. They have to word the PCN so that we would both know or be able to identify where the contravention occurs.

and them re offering the discount is not the same as them getting mandatory information wrong on the PCN

[cp8759]

The dates have been updated
They as in the council. If your representations are rejected the council will generally extend the period within which the reduced penalty charge may be paid.

Still can't see the relevant dates on the PCN you uploaded. What's the date of notice / date of posting on the PCN?

[Bella908070]

The dates have been updated
They as in the council. If your representations are rejected the council will generally extend the period within which the reduced penalty charge may be paid.

Still can't see the relevant dates on the PCN you uploaded. What's the date of notice / date of posting on the PCN?

There's no discrepancy with the dates. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Phoenix...33;4d-1.4740169

This is where I drove through and it wasn't until i drove in that it showed the bus lane sign. Which by then there was no exit.

We need the dates and also a GSV.

Two things spring to mind. Vague location. It is accepted by adjudicators that the location must be clear. If you were not the driver and received that PCN how could you know a contraventionoccured.

The regulations say that they must accept a payment discounted by 50% 0f paid within 14 days and this must be on the PCN. This PCN states you have 21 days. That is only at best a boon given by the authority with no legal basis.

On day 15 they could demand the full penalty,

I was the driver. They also stated that if I were to fight this, they would allow me diffident time to pay the discounted amount.

It doesn't matter that you were the driver. They have to word the PCN so that we would both know or be able to identify where the contravention occurs.

and them re offering the discount is not the same as them getting mandatory information wrong on the PCN

I see, so how should i proceed with this.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Phoenix...33;4d-1.4740169
This was where i entered, hope it is some help .

This is the one end
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9256544,-...3312!8i6656
Not one way though ??

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Phoenix...33;4d-1.4740169

It was from this end where there's no bus signs until i drove it. I thought it was a one way but the signs proved otherwise.

Restore the dates and times please.

THere's no discrepancy with the dates I checked. I can't seem to edit the post nor can i upload any other photos as its past my max mb allowed.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Phoenix...33;4d-1.4740169

This is where i drove it, hope that helps.

[PASTMYBEST]

You don't seem to understand the principal of vague location. the council must make the location clear to anyone not just the driver. who might not be the person who receives it

see this London case

2160352826

A contravention can occur if a vehicle is in a bus lane during operational hours, other than as permitted or exempted
This Penalty Charge Notice was served by post on the basis of evidence produced by an approved device.
The Penalty Charge Notice gives the location of the contravention as ‘Kilburn High Road’.
The Appellant’s Representative submits that the Appellant could not know where the contravention was alleged to have occurred from this description.
The name of the street alone may very often be sufficient to identify the location, particularly if the Penalty Charge Notice has been issued by fixing it to the vehicle or giving it to the person appearing to him to be in charge of the vehicle.
However, I accept that Kilburn High Road is a very long road and, as stated, this Penalty Charge Notice was served by post.
It must therefore be that, in this case, further information was required on the Penalty Charge Notice. This could have been done by, for example, reference to the adjoining premises such as ‘outside numbers 100 - 120’ or to the adjoining road that the vehicle is shown to pass.
Considering all the evidence before me carefully I am not satisfied that the Penalty Charge Notice is sufficiently compliant to be enforceable.
Accordingly this appeal must be allowed.

[John U.K.]

can't seem to edit the post

At the bottom r-h corner of each of your posts you will see a button marked edit. (Older posts maynot have this button.) Click on it. Choose Full Edit or Quick Edit. The latter is adequate for most edits.

nor can i upload any other photos as its past my max mb allowed.

Try this:
Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:
Some are having problems with Tinypic at he moment.. try Flickr, where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow (click on it) for sharing.

Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr, which enable you to paste the BBCodes into your post here.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.

Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.