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x3 PCNs - Parked in special enforcement area adjacent to footway
j4ck100
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 21:13
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Hi

I parked my car just behind the lamp-post seen here on Monday evening and then was traveling on work so did not return to the vehicle until Thursday when you can imagine my horror seeing x3 tickets piled up on the windscreen!

I have been parking in this space many times and in fact a resident came out of his house when i was removing the PCNs from the windscreen and said he couldn't believe it as he parks there (and streetview shows a van parked close-by too)

Alas i am now informed that parking on a section of carriage way that is raised to meet the pavement is prohibited

I guess i have no problem in paying the 1st PCN if I was indeed parked illegally, though it would be painful if i would have to pay all 3 given the car didn't move and i had no chance to rectify.

Thoughts welcome please, thanks




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post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 21:13
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stamfordman
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 21:48
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Wrong contravention - should be a code 28. So a good chance of getting all 3 cancelled and 2 in any case as a continuous contravention.

The tactile paving though is there on both sides for a crossing. You must watch out for these.
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Steve_999
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 21:52
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Are all three PCNs for "Code 27" like the one you have posted up? Great if so as wrong contravention!
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stamfordman
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 21:55
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QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 22:52) *
Are all three PCNs for "Code 27" like the one you have posted up?



good point
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mike5100
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 06:55
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 22:48) *
Wrong contravention - should be a code 28. So a good chance of getting all 3 cancelled and 2 in any case as a continuous contravention.

The tactile paving though is there on both sides for a crossing. You must watch out for these.

That's important. It does seem unfair that the OP got 3 tickets with no chance to rectify, but surely he and the neighbour must already know that people in wheelchairs are going to have difficulty getting across the road if cars park in that position -unless I'm misinterpreting the picture
Mike
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Incandescent
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 09:34
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Can somebody explain the difference 27-28, because if I was an adjudicator, the description seems to perfectly match what the driver has done. Right across a very obvious crossing point.
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hcandersen
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 09:42
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It does seem unfair that the OP got 3 tickets with no chance to rectify,

Not really. Given the nature of the contravention, there would be no need for a CEO to note valve positions so why would day 2 CEO see this as a continuous contravention? (we all know of drivers who think it's a jolly wheeze to place an empty PCN envelope on their windscreen when they park in contravention).

We should not mistake the CEO's actions for the totally separate role of the authority when it considers reps, possibly on the basis of continuous contravention. It would be unfair to pay 3 penalties, but that's different from getting 3 tickets.

OP, a word to the wise: do not leave your car for extended periods without checking. Next time you could find it in the pound.

Anyway, looking to the future:
Would they cancel all 3? Unlikely.
Therefore we need to ask - are you the registered keeper and are your DVLA V5C details up to date?
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j4ck100
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 11:13
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 10:42) *
It does seem unfair that the OP got 3 tickets with no chance to rectify,

Not really. Given the nature of the contravention, there would be no need for a CEO to note valve positions so why would day 2 CEO see this as a continuous contravention? (we all know of drivers who think it's a jolly wheeze to place an empty PCN envelope on their windscreen when they park in contravention).

We should not mistake the CEO's actions for the totally separate role of the authority when it considers reps, possibly on the basis of continuous contravention. It would be unfair to pay 3 penalties, but that's different from getting 3 tickets.

OP, a word to the wise: do not leave your car for extended periods without checking. Next time you could find it in the pound.

Anyway, looking to the future:
Would they cancel all 3? Unlikely.
Therefore we need to ask - are you the registered keeper and are your DVLA V5C details up to date?


All 3 PCNs are 'contravention 27'. I guess posters above are referring to the fact that the carriageway is raised to meet the footway which should be a 'section 28'. 'Section 27' seems reserved for when the carriageway/footway is lowered.

I am the RK however I have just moved house and therefore the vehicle is registered at my parents address.

Thank you.
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AdeyG
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 11:38
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Deleted post

This post has been edited by AdeyG: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 11:47
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Steve_999
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 11:46
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QUOTE (j4ck100 @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 12:13) *
. . . . . . .
All 3 PCNs are 'contravention 27'. . . . . .


If that's the case it should be fatal to the PCNs.
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Michael Gibson
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 12:19
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I speak daily to Kingston CEOs - they have been told not to issue code 28.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 12:52
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QUOTE (Michael Gibson @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:19) *
I speak daily to Kingston CEOs - they have been told not to issue code 28.



Why?
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 12:57
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:52) *
QUOTE (Michael Gibson @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:19) *
I speak daily to Kingston CEOs - they have been told not to issue code 28.



Why?


Kingston policy cannot usurp the regs


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All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Michael Gibson
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 12:59
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:57) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:52) *
QUOTE (Michael Gibson @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:19) *
I speak daily to Kingston CEOs - they have been told not to issue code 28.



Why?


Kingston policy cannot usurp the regs


Absolutely. They can't enforce raised carriageway contraventions then!
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:04
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QUOTE (Michael Gibson @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:59) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:57) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:52) *
QUOTE (Michael Gibson @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:19) *
I speak daily to Kingston CEOs - they have been told not to issue code 28.



Why?


Kingston policy cannot usurp the regs


Absolutely. They can't enforce raised carriageway contraventions then!


Not with a code 27


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All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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j4ck100
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 15:10
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Thanks for all of your helpful messages.

There appear to be differing opinions on whether I will be liable to pay these notices - what is my best route forward now please?

Thank you.
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cp8759
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 16:53
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If all the penalties were issued for code 27, you are liable for none of them. Send informal reps for all three (I'd send 1 letter and quote all 3 PCN numbers).

--------

Dear Sir or Madam,

I contest liability on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur. While I now understanding parking at this location is prohibited, it is quite apparent that this is a location where the carriageway is raised to meet the level of the footpath. Accordingly a PCN should have been issued with code 28, rather than 27.

Furthermore, the vehicle did not move at any time between the date of issue of the 1st PCN and the 3rd PCN, indeed I was away during this period. It follows that in any event only one contravention occurred, so the council had no powers to issue a 2nd and 3rd PCN for the same contravention. It follows that at the very least, PCNs 2 and 3 should be cancelled.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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mike5100
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 19:01
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 10:42) *
It does seem unfair that the OP got 3 tickets with no chance to rectify,

Not really. Given the nature of the contravention, there would be no need for a CEO to note valve positions so why would day 2 CEO see this as a continuous contravention? (we all know of drivers who think it's a jolly wheeze to place an empty PCN envelope on their windscreen when they park in contravention).

Good point. (and thanks for the tip - never thought of that one biggrin.gif )

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BQ68
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 19:30
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https://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/download/file/fid/4029 p33-34
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j4ck100
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 21:40
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Thank you, I shall write an informal letter and see where that takes me.

Interestingly in scanning the CEO handbook helpfully posted above, I note the exemption listed for both code 27 & 28

EXEMPTIONS
• A vehicle parked outside a residential premises by or with the consent of the occupier of the premises. (NOT in the case of a shared driveway).

If I am reading this correctly then a resident is permitted to park where I parked? How is a CEO to know which vehicles are residents or am I interpreting the exemption incorrectly?

Thank you.
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