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Good friend - also employee has his insurance cancelled, Best next step?
Christian_d
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 23:14
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Hi all,

I employ a semi retired gent part time (73 yrs old). He uses his own car for work (has correct cover business use). He's a genuine honest chap but ignorance is no excuse, I know.

He's had two accidents in the last 5 years, both non fault so he thought that he did not need to declare them!

He took the policy out a few months ago online (I don't know the full story yet) but he's received a letter of cancellation, informing him that that cover is cancelled as from 26/5. I'm fairly certain that the reason is non disclosure. He's clearly answered the question incorrectly and not that it matters now but he's not the type to purposely be dishonest with anything.

He's panicking and I need to help him if I can.

My first thoughts are to call his broker, explain that he''s made an honest but naive mistake, plead to reconsider but if all else fails ask if he can cancel it instead. I'm concerned that a cancelled policy wont look good for future insurers.

Could someone in the know offer some advice please?
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post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 23:14
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The Rookie
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 01:13
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You can call and explain, but I fear it will be a lost cause.

He can take out new insurance but will not only have to declare the accidents but also that he has had insurance declined or cancelled and that will further load his premiums.

Insurers do have a reason for wanting to know about non fault accidents, there is demonstrable increase in risk from those who were not at fault, two would have increased his premium. The questions they ask are clear so I’m not sure why he didn’t understand the need to disclose.


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cp8759
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 11:19
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 02:13) *
You can call and explain, but I fear it will be a lost cause.

He can take out new insurance but will not only have to declare the accidents but also that he has had insurance declined or cancelled and that will further load his premiums.

+1, his best bet is going to be a specialist insurer like Adrian Flux, many online price comparisons sites will provide few if any quotes if his policy has been cancelled by the insurer.


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Harnes
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 15:53
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 02:13) *
You can call and explain, but I fear it will be a lost cause.

He can take out new insurance but will not only have to declare the accidents but also that he has had insurance declined or cancelled and that will further load his premiums.

Insurers do have a reason for wanting to know about non fault accidents, there is demonstrable increase in risk from those who were not at fault, two would have increased his premium. The questions they ask are clear so I’m not sure why he didn’t understand the need to disclose.


Hi,
I had a non fault accident in 2014, sitting at a junction waiting to turn right and got slammed in the rear by a van. How does that make me an increased risk ?
Held a driving licence for 40 years and have been points and accident free for the last 20 (discounting the non fault in 2014)
Regards


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StuartBu
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 15:56
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QUOTE (Harnes @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 16:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 02:13) *
You can call and explain, but I fear it will be a lost cause.

He can take out new insurance but will not only have to declare the accidents but also that he has had insurance declined or cancelled and that will further load his premiums.

Insurers do have a reason for wanting to know about non fault accidents, there is demonstrable increase in risk from those who were not at fault, two would have increased his premium. The questions they ask are clear so I’m not sure why he didn’t understand the need to disclose.


Hi,
I had a non fault accident in 2014, sitting at a junction waiting to turn right and got slammed in the rear by a van. How does that make me an increased risk ?
Held a driving licence for 40 years and have been points and accident free for the last 20 (discounting the non fault in 2014)
Regards


I don't get that either .I had two accidents while my car was parked in my street and I was watching TV so how does that make me a greater risk. I did recover the cost from the other parties

This post has been edited by StuartBu: Tue, 15 May 2018 - 15:57
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cp8759
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 17:10
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 16:56) *
I don't get that either .I had two accidents while my car was parked in my street and I was watching TV so how does that make me a greater risk. I did recover the cost from the other parties

Statistics show that people involved in non-fault accidents are, in aggregate, more likely to go on and be at fault in an accident than motorists who are not involved in any accidents at all. This obviously won't hold true in all cases, but you're a victim of the fact that the insurance companies' actuarial models don't at present differentiate between "not at fault, it was my right of way" scenarios from "car was parked, unattended, I was in my living room watching TV" scenarios.

If you were to call a specialised broker rather than an online comparison site you might be able to get them to take this into account and offer you the same price they'd offer to someone with no accident history at all, but the likes of moneysupermarket just can't take this information into account.


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facade
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 17:52
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 16:56) *
I don't get that either .I had two accidents while my car was parked in my street and I was watching TV so how does that make me a greater risk. I did recover the cost from the other parties



You obviously make a habit of parking it in a risky place, as two accidents would seem to bear out.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:06
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Your car was hit once making you an increased risk, guess what it was hit again.......conclusive proof obviously!

Seriously though it’s a fact that those with more non fault accidents are more likely to make a claim, you may not like it or understand it, but it’s true. The insurer is entitled to load for that risk, they all do it.

Even a non fault accident will frequently cost your insurer ‘something’.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

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whitewing
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 21:50
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So if a no-fault accident increases your future premiums, couldn't you claim for this against the at-fault third party, as it's a loss directly arising from the accident?
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Christian_d
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 23:10
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I've offered to help him out on Friday morning at the office.... So a specialist broker it is then. I'll update further once I have more details.

Thanks for the input folks.
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666
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 23:18
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QUOTE (whitewing @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 22:50) *
So if a no-fault accident increases your future premiums, couldn't you claim for this against the at-fault third party, as it's a loss directly arising from the accident?


Let's say the insurer charges a higher premium because he considers you a higher risk because you park in vulnerable places. The accident hasn't actually increased the risk, merely brought it to the insurer's attention.
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StuartBu
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 23:56
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QUOTE (facade @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:52) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 16:56) *
I don't get that either .I had two accidents while my car was parked in my street and I was watching TV so how does that make me a greater risk. I did recover the cost from the other parties



You obviously make a habit of parking it in a risky place, as two accidents would seem to bear out.

Bollocks.
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DancingDad
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 08:39
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 00:56) *
QUOTE (facade @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:52) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 16:56) *
I don't get that either .I had two accidents while my car was parked in my street and I was watching TV so how does that make me a greater risk. I did recover the cost from the other parties



You obviously make a habit of parking it in a risky place, as two accidents would seem to bear out.

Bollocks.


biggrin.gif Happened to a mate of mine........ both his and his wife's cars were parked outside their house.
Where they had parked everyday for something like 20 years.
Lady further up hill parked but did not engage handbrake properly... her car rolled down the hill, sideswiping both cars (and others).
No arguments, everything went onto her insurance.
But both mate and his good lady had increased premium quotes at renewal time.
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nigelbb
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 09:45
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 09:39) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 00:56) *
QUOTE (facade @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:52) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 16:56) *
I don't get that either .I had two accidents while my car was parked in my street and I was watching TV so how does that make me a greater risk. I did recover the cost from the other parties



You obviously make a habit of parking it in a risky place, as two accidents would seem to bear out.

Bollocks.


biggrin.gif Happened to a mate of mine........ both his and his wife's cars were parked outside their house.
Where they had parked everyday for something like 20 years.
Lady further up hill parked but did not engage handbrake properly... her car rolled down the hill, sideswiping both cars (and others).
No arguments, everything went onto her insurance.
But both mate and his good lady had increased premium quotes at renewal time.

The future increased premiums should have been reflected in the payout from her insurance. If it wasn't then they could still have issued a claim assuming they hadn't signed anything in "full & final settlement".


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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facade
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 09:51
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 00:56) *
QUOTE (facade @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:52) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 16:56) *
I don't get that either .I had two accidents while my car was parked in my street and I was watching TV so how does that make me a greater risk. I did recover the cost from the other parties



You obviously make a habit of parking it in a risky place, as two accidents would seem to bear out.

Bollocks.



Put it this way, if you want to bet me £5 that it won't happen again I'd take the bet.
If you want me to bet £5 that it won't, I wouldn't- which is the position that your insurance company is taking. They want better odds before they will take the bet.
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TheDisapprovingB...
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 15:09
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QUOTE (Harnes @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 16:53) *
Hi,
I had a non fault accident in 2014, sitting at a junction waiting to turn right and got slammed in the rear by a van. How does that make me an increased risk ?
Held a driving licence for 40 years and have been points and accident free for the last 20 (discounting the non fault in 2014)
Regards


It comes down to the old adage that I seem to find myself repeating again and again after a bump - often to the same people: "Just because you weren't legally at fault doesn't mean you couldn't have done anything to avoid it"

In your case, it seems likely that there's nothing you could have done to avoid it. But I'm sure we've all seen dashcam video's where you tihnk "Sure, they might have been legally in the right, but they're still an idiot." For example, those drivers who see a vehicle attempting to merge onto a motorway, and it's clear that if both vehicles maintain the same speed and course, a collision is inevitable, and yet that's exactly what they do. The merging vehicle is 100% at fault, but there are a hundred ways the other driver could have avoided the situation.
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cp8759
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 15:38
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QUOTE (TheDisapprovingBrit @ Fri, 18 May 2018 - 16:09) *
In your case, it seems likely that there's nothing you could have done to avoid it. But I'm sure we've all seen dashcam video's where you tihnk "Sure, they might have been legally in the right, but they're still an idiot." For example, those drivers who see a vehicle attempting to merge onto a motorway, and it's clear that if both vehicles maintain the same speed and course, a collision is inevitable, and yet that's exactly what they do. The merging vehicle is 100% at fault...

Is the driver in lane 1 legally blameless? I'm sure there's something in case law abound a vehicle which is "there to be seen"...


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Christian_d
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 21:28
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Well some feedback....... I found out that he had actually notified them of one of his non fault accidents, he failed to disclose the other three which happened in the past 5 years, albeit two of them were 4yrs 8 months ago with one of those being £0 value. I think age, the inexperience with online comparison sites and laptops have not done him any favours. It's a crying shame to see a man so stressed over something which in the great scheme of things is trivial. He has the means to pay for his mistake but he still does not agree that non fault accidents, whether he likes it or not need disclosing. I've now stressed the importance now and it has sunk in.

His current Broker (Co-op) would not have any of my suggestion (in post #1) about letting him cancel it first.

What I don't understand is that he'd disclosed one of them. To someone that doesn't know him - this would suggest that he's dishonest enough to attempt to hide the other three but the simple fact is that I've known him for 18 years and believe it was 100% a genuine ignorant mistake. My only explanation is that he's declared the first, missed the click to add another and carried on with processing the quote. He's now refused to get his new docs emailed. He wants them posting, "so he can read them himself". He's clearly lost a little faith in the "tinterweb"

His previous price for 12 months was £460. We spent 4 hours trawling through about 8 specialist brokers (inc Adrian Flux £1400). We then tried "Compare the Market" and found him a policy for £937 without Telematics. There were more than a few quotes (nearly half) that stipulated Telematics........ He chose to pay an extra £80 to avoid.

Cue the fury......... "24 years without a single fault claim and some pillock wants to watch me drive around all day, he can FO"

You can take the pensioner out of Salford but you can't take Salford from the pensioner.......

He took 20% business cover by the way. The guy can work for me for as long as he's capable. He treats my clients like he does his own own family. He's a true gem.

This post has been edited by Christian_d: Fri, 18 May 2018 - 21:33
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glasgow_bhoy
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 22:25
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 00:56) *
QUOTE (facade @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:52) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 16:56) *
I don't get that either .I had two accidents while my car was parked in my street and I was watching TV so how does that make me a greater risk. I did recover the cost from the other parties



You obviously make a habit of parking it in a risky place, as two accidents would seem to bear out.

Bollocks.

South side of Glasgow with on-street parking... I would say thats a higher risk of being hit than most places in Scotland. I've worked various places around Pollokshaws/Shawlands/Cathcart/Hampden and never felt happy leaving my car parked anywhere.

QUOTE (Christian_d @ Fri, 18 May 2018 - 22:28) *
His previous price for 12 months was £460. We spent 4 hours trawling through about 8 specialist brokers (inc Adrian Flux £1400). We then tried "Compare the Market" and found him a policy for £937 without Telematics. There were more than a few quotes (nearly half) that stipulated Telematics........ He chose to pay an extra £80 to avoid.

How long does the poor guy have to declare the cancelled policy for? Lifetime seems really excessive IMO... especially considering offences with points or actual claims only need to be declared for 5 years.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 19 May 2018 - 07:07
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QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Fri, 18 May 2018 - 23:25) *
..........How long does the poor guy have to declare the cancelled policy for? Lifetime seems really excessive IMO... especially considering offences with points or actual claims only need to be declared for 5 years.


I was asked the question yesterday while shopping about for insurance "Have you ever had insurance declined or cancelled?"
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