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NIP question ?
new007
post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 21:11
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Hi, If a speeding offense was committed say 85 in 60 for example in the first week of June 2013 and that person A bought that vehicle in 16 May 2013 and received the updated v5c from dvla with the doc date stated ="30/05/2013" with person A name,address etc as the new owner etc can they still be prosecuted if they have not received a NIP in the post after 100 days ?


Thx


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post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 21:11
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mrh3369
post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 21:15
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Were they pulled over?


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new007
post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 21:17
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QUOTE (mrh3369 @ Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 22:15) *
Were they pulled over?

No, Person A just suspected there was a active camera at the time.
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southpaw82
post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 21:18
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We don't do hypotheticals here. So cut it out. The answer is yes, they can be prosecuted but not convicted if the court believes no NIP was served within 14 days and there was no reason it couldn't be.


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new007
post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 21:51
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 22:18) *
We don't do hypotheticals here. So cut it out. The answer is yes, they can be prosecuted but not convicted if the court believes no NIP was served within 14 days and there was no reason it couldn't be.

Ok sorry I apologize.
I went past what I thought to be a camera van in first week of June 2013 and since have not received NIP or any other relating letters im the registered owner/keeper and its been over 100 days how much longer do I need to wait to be sure ?


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Jlc
post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 21:58
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They have to lay particulars with a court within 6 months. There might be a small delay after that to send out the summons.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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sgtdixie
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 09:58
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QUOTE (new007 @ Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 22:51) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 22:18) *
We don't do hypotheticals here. So cut it out. The answer is yes, they can be prosecuted but not convicted if the court believes no NIP was served within 14 days and there was no reason it couldn't be.

Ok sorry I apologize.
I went past what I thought to be a camera van in first week of June 2013 and since have not received NIP or any other relating letters im the registered owner/keeper and its been over 100 days how much longer do I need to wait to be sure ?


I have driven past thousands of speed cameras and oddly enough haven't been sent any NIPs either.
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new007
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 11:19
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Is the date next to the "doc.ref.N number" on page 2 of the v5c the v5c issue date? does this mean the dvla have updated their records for the registered keeper on this date and that any new NIP will be sent to this new address ?

If the first NIP is sent to the registered keeper and fails to arrive and so is not signed for at the other end are there other attempts to send another NIP ?

If you had just suspected that you had been caught by a camera and at the time your the registered keeper then 4 months go by from that day and you don't receive a NIP or any other relating letters are you in the clear ?


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Logician
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 11:24
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QUOTE (new007 @ Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 12:19) *
Is the date next to the "doc.ref.N number" on page 2 of the v5c the v5c issue date? does this mean the dvla have updated their records for the registered keeper on this date and that any new NIP will be sent to this new address ?


Yes

QUOTE
If the first NIP is sent to the registered keeper and fails to arrive and so is
not signed for at the other end are there other attempts to send another NIP ?


NIPs are sent by regular post and are therefore never signed for. If no response is received, in many but not all areas a reminder is sent.

QUOTE
If you had just suspected that you had been caught by a camera and at the time
your the registered keeper then 4 months go by from that day and you don't
receive a NIP or any other relating letters are you in the clear ?


The registered keeper has to have a NIP served on him within 14 days in order for him to be convicted, subject to some caveats.


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new007
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 11:47
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QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 12:24) *
QUOTE (new007 @ Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 12:19) *
Is the date next to the "doc.ref.N number" on page 2 of the v5c the v5c issue date? does this mean the dvla have updated their records for the registered keeper on this date and that any new NIP will be sent to this new address ?


Yes

QUOTE
If the first NIP is sent to the registered keeper and fails to arrive and so is
not signed for at the other end are there other attempts to send another NIP ?


NIPs are sent by regular post and are therefore never signed for. If no response is received, in many but not all areas a reminder is sent.

QUOTE
If you had just suspected that you had been caught by a camera and at the time
your the registered keeper then 4 months go by from that day and you don't
receive a NIP or any other relating letters are you in the clear ?


The registered keeper has to have a NIP served on him within 14 days in order for him to be convicted, subject to some caveats.

OK understood.
If no NIP is received by the registered keeper is there any way for the registered keeper to find out if a NIP has been served on him ?
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mrh3369
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 11:50
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If the registered keeper hadn't received a nip then it certainly hasn't been served on them, they could have to give credible evidence of this to a court though.


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new007
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 12:22
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QUOTE (mrh3369 @ Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 12:50) *
If the registered keeper hadn't received a nip then it certainly hasn't been served on them, they could have to give credible evidence of this to a court though.

If the registered keeper never receives a NIP after say 4 months from the date that they suspected they got caught could they then receive a court summons despite not receiving a NIP in that time ?

I was under the impression that the registered keeper first receives a NIP within 14 days followed after within a 6 month period by a court summons letter is this correct ?

How usual is it for the registered keeper (person suspecting they got caught) to receive a court summons for speeding if they have not received a NIP at all in a 4 month period ?



Thx again

This post has been edited by new007: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 12:22
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Kickaha
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 12:28
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It would be unusual as they would have no evidence of who was driving.

Far more likely to issue a summons for failing to furnish - sometimes with the speeding listed as well.
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scottishpoet
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 12:40
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Its highly unlikely that a summons will be received for speeding as nobody has admitted speeding.

What may happen is that a summons would be sent for failing to furnish. This would petentially go to the previous address/registered keeper if they refused to respond to an intial NIP.

So there are a host of possibilities

1/ No offence is being pusrued
2/ A NIP was sent to the orginal RK which they have not responded to
3/ An NIP was sent to the previous RK which they did respond to saying they had sold the car and now the authorities are trying to identify who the new RK is and their contact details
4/ An NIP was sent to the previous RK which they responded to with the contact details you provided to them, You would then have received you own NIP within a few weeks

Without knowledge of what, if anything, has been sent and to who we are really just shooting fish in a barrell on hypotheses

.

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Logician
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 13:18
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If the driver was not warned at the time of the offence, no one can be convicted of speeding if the registered keeper is not served with a NIP within 14 days, subject to caveats. That is the law, the evidential point is that it is extremely difficult to prove that a NIP has not been served on the RK.


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new007
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 13:29
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QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 14:18) *
If the driver was not warned at the time of the offence, no one can be convicted of speeding if the registered keeper is not served with a NIP within 14 days, subject to caveats. That is the law, the evidential point is that it is extremely difficult to prove that a NIP has not been served on the RK.
Can the RK of the vehicle make a request to the police somehow to find out if there is a NIP served on them as this would eliminate the chance that somehow the RK has a NIP served on them but for some reason did not receive the NIP letter notifying them about this ?
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southpaw82
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 13:44
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How about, you know, calling them and asking?


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new007
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 16:31
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OK will do.

How common is it for the police to send a second NIP letter out if the first one is lost ie not responded by before going the failure to furnish route ?

What circumstances would there need to be for the police to decide not to send a NIP letter in the first place to the RK and instead send a court summons for speeding ?



Thx once again

This post has been edited by new007: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 16:32
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scottishpoet
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 16:36
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from a camera they would never send a summons for speeding first

A roadside stop may result in a summons without a COFP as you will get (at least) a verbal NIP

Cased on the feedback on this forum it appears commond for "reminder" NIPs to be sent out if the firsr NIP is not responded to

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southpaw82
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 16:36
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AKAIK all forces except Gwent send a reminder. Not everyone gets the reminder (a lot of post seems to go missing).

The circumstances are quite simply that the police could not, with reasonable diligence, serve the NIP. The most common cause is the RK details not being up to date.


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