Notice to Keeper but no PCN recieved |
Notice to Keeper but no PCN recieved |
Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 10:58
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 12 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,363 |
Hi all and I hope someone can help me,
I have recieved a "Notice to Keeper" in relation to a PCN that i did not recieve, no ticket left on the bike either? The dates appear to indicate that the PCN was issued 35 days after the date they claim the bike was not parked correctly? Also they say they recieved my details following a "Transfer of Liability"? So I have a couple of questions firstly should i just ignore this and any subsequent letters? secondly with the PCN being issued outside of the 14 day period should i write back simply stating that i am not liable under POFA and would any kind soul have a suitible form of words for this? Lastly should i be concerned by the "Transfer of Liability" at all? Thank you in advance. This post has been edited by bob69: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:35 |
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Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 10:58
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Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:27
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#2
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 12 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,363 |
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Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:29
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 9 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,328 |
I would suggest saying:
"The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, paragraph 9, which regulates the issue of Notices to Keeper, provides that - '(4)The notice must be given by— (a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or (b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period. (5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.' A valid Notice to Keeper may only be issued if it complies with that legislation. Your purported 'notice to keeper' was not handed to me. It was not left at or delivered to my current address for service within the period specified in the legislation. Therefore, it is not a valid Notice to Keeper and amounts to nothing more than an unenforceable speculative invoice which carries no lawful authority. I will make no payment of any kind in respect of your unenforceable speculative invoice." I hope that helps. |
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Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:45
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Was there a ticket on the vehicle? The letter suggests that there was. In this case a PCN has to be issued between days 28 and 56. Paragraph 8
This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:45 |
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Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:52
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Two likely events
1/ The Notice to Driver (aka PCN) fell off or was taken 2/ It’s a ghost ticket, this is where a NtD is written and put on, photographed and removed, this prevents confrontation at the site and allows them to say the chance of a discount has gone. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:01
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 12 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,363 |
There was no ticket left on the vehicle (motorbike) and the letter says that the PCN was issued on the 29th June but the alleged parking offence took place on the 25th May???
Thanks for the replies so far. |
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Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:45
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
OK, there was not a windscreen ticket so send the following to kick things off
Sirs Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued and this is first I have heard about this matter. I have no liability whatsoever on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the prescribed relevant period of 14 days, contrary to section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me. There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so. Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct. Yours etc. Probably will be rejected but don't make an appeal to the IAS. This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:46 |
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Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:55
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I wouldn’t use that, as they seem to state there was an NtD, I think that should very specifically be rebutted.
In addition, from their own dates even if there was an NtD it’s too late for keeper liability. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:56 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 14:55
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
It is being rebutted by the mention of the relevant period of 14 days.
25th May alleged parking and alleged NTD 29th June alleged NTK issued 30th July reminder about the NTK issued 29th June So they are attempting to say that a NTD was given on the 25th May with a NTK correctly issued between days 28 and 56 The first the OP heard was the reminder letter on the 30th July. Without any previous correspondence then they are out of time. Agree that if this was the first letter received then even if there was a NTD it would be out of time. |
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Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 18:08
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
That’s not rebutting the assertion it was an NTD in any meaningful way, noting the number we get confused thinking there is a 14 day limit when there has been an NtD, I’d put it very much there in B&W, even more so there can be no keeper liability anyway as it’s outside 56 days.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 07:56
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
ust state
there was no notice left on the vehicle, and the first notice was.... This rebuts any assertion a NtD was on the vehicle. |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 14:42
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#12
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 12 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,363 |
How about this??? Mostly using Ostell's wording -
Sirs Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the “Notice to Keeper” you issued on the 30th July 2018 and this is first I have heard about this matter. I have confirmed with the driver there was no ticket or “Parking Charge Notice” left on the vehicle at the time. Neither the driver nor I have received any other “Notices” about this matter. Therefore I have no liability whatsoever on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the prescribed relevant period of 14 days, contrary to section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me. There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so. Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct. Yours etc. What do you think, should i confirm communication with the driver or not, maybe try to be a bit more vague? |
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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 14:53
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#13
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 12 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,363 |
Anyone any last/further thoughts before I post this off?
Thanks in advance. |
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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 14:56
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Sirs Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the “Notice to Keeper” you issued on the 30th July 2018 and this is first I have heard about this matter. I have confirmed with the driver there was no ticket or “Parking Charge Notice” left on the vehicle at the time. Neither the driver nor I have received any other “Notices” about this matter. Therefore I have no liability whatsoever on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the prescribed relevant period of 14 days, contrary to section 9 (4) of the Act. Alternatively if you claim there was a Notice to Driver attached to the parked car you have failed to serve the Notice to Keeper within 56 days. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me. There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so. Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct. Yours etc. I've added an edit in bold that covers the second eventuality. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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