PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Notice to Keeper but no PCN recieved
bob69
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 10:58
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Member No.: 99,363



Hi all and I hope someone can help me,

I have recieved a "Notice to Keeper" in relation to a PCN that i did not recieve, no ticket left on the bike either?

The dates appear to indicate that the PCN was issued 35 days after the date they claim the bike was not parked correctly?

Also they say they recieved my details following a "Transfer of Liability"?

So I have a couple of questions firstly should i just ignore this and any subsequent letters?
secondly with the PCN being issued outside of the 14 day period should i write back simply stating that i am not liable under POFA and would any kind soul have a suitible form of words for this?
Lastly should i be concerned by the "Transfer of Liability" at all?

Thank you in advance.

This post has been edited by bob69: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:35
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 13)
Advertisement
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 10:58
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
bob69
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:27
Post #2


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Member No.: 99,363



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LLB_Student
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:29
Post #3


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 9 Aug 2018
Member No.: 99,328



I would suggest saying:


"The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, paragraph 9, which regulates the issue of Notices to Keeper, provides that -

'(4)The notice must be given by—
(a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or
(b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.'

A valid Notice to Keeper may only be issued if it complies with that legislation. Your purported 'notice to keeper' was not handed to me. It was not left at or delivered to my current address for service within the period specified in the legislation. Therefore, it is not a valid Notice to Keeper and amounts to nothing more than an unenforceable speculative invoice which carries no lawful authority. I will make no payment of any kind in respect of your unenforceable speculative invoice."


I hope that helps.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:45
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,088
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



Was there a ticket on the vehicle? The letter suggests that there was. In this case a PCN has to be issued between days 28 and 56. Paragraph 8

This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:45
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:52
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,195
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Two likely events
1/ The Notice to Driver (aka PCN) fell off or was taken
2/ It’s a ghost ticket, this is where a NtD is written and put on, photographed and removed, this prevents confrontation at the site and allows them to say the chance of a discount has gone.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bob69
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:01
Post #6


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Member No.: 99,363



There was no ticket left on the vehicle (motorbike) and the letter says that the PCN was issued on the 29th June but the alleged parking offence took place on the 25th May???

Thanks for the replies so far.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:45
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,088
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



OK, there was not a windscreen ticket so send the following to kick things off


Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued and this is first I have heard about this matter. I have no liability whatsoever on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the prescribed relevant period of 14 days, contrary to section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me.

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.



Probably will be rejected but don't make an appeal to the IAS.

This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:46
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:55
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,195
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



I wouldn’t use that, as they seem to state there was an NtD, I think that should very specifically be rebutted.

In addition, from their own dates even if there was an NtD it’s too late for keeper liability.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:56


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 14:55
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,088
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



It is being rebutted by the mention of the relevant period of 14 days.

25th May alleged parking and alleged NTD
29th June alleged NTK issued
30th July reminder about the NTK issued 29th June

So they are attempting to say that a NTD was given on the 25th May with a NTK correctly issued between days 28 and 56

The first the OP heard was the reminder letter on the 30th July. Without any previous correspondence then they are out of time.

Agree that if this was the first letter received then even if there was a NTD it would be out of time.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 18:08
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,195
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



That’s not rebutting the assertion it was an NTD in any meaningful way, noting the number we get confused thinking there is a 14 day limit when there has been an NtD, I’d put it very much there in B&W, even more so there can be no keeper liability anyway as it’s outside 56 days.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 07:56
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



ust state

there was no notice left on the vehicle, and the first notice was....
This rebuts any assertion a NtD was on the vehicle.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bob69
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 14:42
Post #12


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Member No.: 99,363



How about this??? Mostly using Ostell's wording -

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the “Notice to Keeper” you issued on the 30th July 2018 and this is first I have heard about this matter.
I have confirmed with the driver there was no ticket or “Parking Charge Notice” left on the vehicle at the time.
Neither the driver nor I have received any other “Notices” about this matter.
Therefore I have no liability whatsoever on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the prescribed relevant period of 14 days, contrary to section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me.

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.

What do you think, should i confirm communication with the driver or not, maybe try to be a bit more vague?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bob69
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 14:53
Post #13


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Member No.: 99,363



Anyone any last/further thoughts before I post this off?

Thanks in advance.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 14:56
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,195
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (bob69 @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 15:42) *
Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the “Notice to Keeper” you issued on the 30th July 2018 and this is first I have heard about this matter.
I have confirmed with the driver there was no ticket or “Parking Charge Notice” left on the vehicle at the time.
Neither the driver nor I have received any other “Notices” about this matter.
Therefore I have no liability whatsoever on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the prescribed relevant period of 14 days, contrary to section 9 (4) of the Act. Alternatively if you claim there was a Notice to Driver attached to the parked car you have failed to serve the Notice to Keeper within 56 days. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me.

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.

I've added an edit in bold that covers the second eventuality.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 09:55
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here