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Council PCN 53J
Rostafa
post Thu, 16 May 2019 - 13:50
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Hi all
This is the first time I have requested help with such a matter, I have always just paid PCNs, but felt the need to contest this one!
I was not aware of the issue until receiving the PCN - in my opinion there is inadequate signage - by the time you've made the turn, even if you see the sign, you have committed the offence. By all accounts this is a recent addition to the road - 53J - 'Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone.'
Legally, I could well be wrong, but would like to ask whether anyone can see a reason for me to go to appeal.
Please see attachments... I was driving east on Tollington Park and turned left onto Sussex Way, N7. To my knowledge the first signs showing the restrictions are at the entrance to Sussex Way, set back from the junction (I could visit to check this and take photos if anyone feels this would help?)
I would expect some warning to prevent making the turning e.g. a road approaching the junction of a no entry sign will have a one way sign to warn you not to make the turn.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3226846
I would be very grateful for any thoughts and suggestions.
Many thanks
Ross
Attached File(s)
Attached File  PCN_and_Rejection.pdf ( 912.77K ) Number of downloads: 42
 
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post Thu, 16 May 2019 - 13:50
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cp8759
post Fri, 17 May 2019 - 23:20
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You need to show us the video, also give us a link to the location on google street view.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Rostafa
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 09:54
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Hi

Video is here https://islington.tarantoportal.com/PCN
IZ11825685
YJ63JHX

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sussex+Wa...5a7475e16f80b14

Thanks


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cp8759
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 19:18
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I think you need to get down there and take some photos of your own, to show what the approach looks like from the driver's perspective. A dashcam video (obviously taken out side of the restricted hours) would also be a good idea.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 20:20
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If you look at the video and stills that's does not look like a pedestrian zone indeed it looks just as the GSV

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5630925,-0....6384!8i8192


Stamf can you oblige?


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Rostafa
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 21:45
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Some basic shots of the approach, hope this helps...

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=19aS...Z39jV8dIL3iRYVh

Unlike some of the signs Islington Council provided after rejecting my representations shown in my first post, there are no warning signs along Tollington Park of the restrictions on Sussex Way.
It's also worth noting that much of TP is single file due to restricted widths along it, but has two way traffic. It's a fairly busy road, and there is a lot to take in anyway, coupled with the amount of info on the sign and the minimal time you have to take it all in, this makes it practically impossible to absorb to my mind. I expect many many drivers have been caught out by this
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Gert
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 21:56
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The last 2 photos of the yellow advance warning signs look like they got something wrong and applied some sort of taped corrective sticker over it, the first one is illegible and it peeled off on the last one.

If either of them were the one you passed before turning then how were you supposed to be fully aware before making the turn? Get them to consider if the sign was clear and not confusing if it was one you passed. Mindful of the date of formal decision though if you plan to take to the tribunal.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 22:05
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One of those school zones The PCN give the wrong date for when they mat serve a CC and for when representations need be made In this case truncating them by 4 days


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Rostafa
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 22:22
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There are no yellow warning signs along the route I took before making my turn onto the restricted road. These are only present in adjacent roads, which is beyond comprehension as TP is probably the busiest of all the roads affected


Pastmybest, sorry I'm not clear of your point?
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cp8759
post Mon, 20 May 2019 - 08:35
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QUOTE (Rostafa @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 23:22) *
Pastmybest, sorry I'm not clear of your point?

It's a somewhat obscure but valid point, have a read of Robert Atlas v London Borough of Barnet (2170053479, 24 April 2017) here http://bit.ly/2KCRlnX


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Rostafa
post Mon, 20 May 2019 - 11:21
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Thanks cp8759. I take this to mean as follows - I quote the relevant part of Robert Atlas v London Borough of Barnet (2170053479, 24 April 2017) here http://bit.ly/2KCRlnX

-------------
[i]It is completely understandable, for the reasons set out above, that the original Adjudicator may have missed a point that had
greater credence than perhaps first appeared amongst many others.
Section 4(8)(a) of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 provides that A penalty charge notice
under this section must [amongst other things] state ... (iii) that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of
28 days beginning with the date of the notice; ... (v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period,
an increased charge may be payable; (vi) the amount of the increased charge; ... and (viii) that the person on whom the notice
is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to the Act; and (8)(b) requires that they
specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.
Paragraph 1(3) of the Schedule provides that the enforcing authority may disregard any such representations which are
received by them after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice in question
was served.
Mr Atlas correctly points out that in this case the Penalty Charge Notice states: ‘The penalty charge of £130 must be paid not
later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice. If the penalty charge is not paid before the
end of the 28 day period and no representations have been made, an increased charge of 50% to £195 may be payable and a
charge certificate may be issued.’
Mr Atlas submits that this wording is not compliant with the requirements of the 2003 Act and, further, effectively limits the time
he has to make representations.
I accept this submission. The wording does not comply with the requirements of the Act and therefore effectively limits the time
a recipient has to make representations or, indeed, to pay the full penalty charge before a Charge Certificate is issued.
[/i]

---------------------

My PCN...
Date of rejection 14/05/19
28 days after DOR = 11/06/19
DOR states 01/06/19 to benefit from discount i.e. 28 days after would be 15/06/19

Is the difference between 11/06 and 15/06 the issue? They have given an additional 4 days - must the 28 day period be adhered to exactly?

Sorry, I'm finding this all very confusing!!

Thank you

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cp8759
post Mon, 20 May 2019 - 11:45
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The issue is the PCN, not the Notice of Rejection.

PCN issued 23 April 2019, served 25 April.

28 days from date of PCN: 20 May 2019
28 days from date of service of PCN: 22 May 2019

If you hadn't paid or made representations, legally the council could have issued a charge certificate on 23 May 2019, but the PCN says they can do this on 21 May 2019, i.e. two days earlier than they are allowed to.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Rostafa
post Mon, 20 May 2019 - 12:04
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Another point to add having reviewed the site against the pictures supplied with the rejection - none of the signs are from where I received the PCN and there are no advance warning signs along the approaching road.
In the notice of rejection it states 'signage in place at this location' and 'these photographs also show the advance warning notices of restrictions along with the notice at each entrance to the road.' This is simply not the case.
At the opposite end of Sussex Way to where I received the PCN there is a bright yellow advance warning sign and then the notice, which is clear when driving and much more difficult to miss and therefore argue on this point alone.
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Rostafa
post Mon, 20 May 2019 - 12:24
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 12:45) *
The issue is the PCN, not the Notice of Rejection.

PCN issued 23 April 2019, served 25 April.

28 days from date of PCN: 20 May 2019
28 days from date of service of PCN: 22 May 2019

If you hadn't paid or made representations, legally the council could have issued a charge certificate on 23 May 2019, but the PCN says they can do this on 21 May 2019, i.e. two days earlier than they are allowed to.



Thank you. I am not clear what 'served' relates to - do they have to allow 2 days for receipt of notice? The PCN clearly states '28 days beginning with the date of this notice' which I have as from 23/04/19 to 21/05/19
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 20 May 2019 - 12:54
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QUOTE (Rostafa @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 13:24) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 12:45) *
The issue is the PCN, not the Notice of Rejection.

PCN issued 23 April 2019, served 25 April.

28 days from date of PCN: 20 May 2019
28 days from date of service of PCN: 22 May 2019

If you hadn't paid or made representations, legally the council could have issued a charge certificate on 23 May 2019, but the PCN says they can do this on 21 May 2019, i.e. two days earlier than they are allowed to.



Thank you. I am not clear what 'served' relates to - do they have to allow 2 days for receipt of notice? The PCN clearly states '28 days beginning with the date of this notice' which I have as from 23/04/19 to 21/05/19


Service is deemed to be effected 2 working days after date of posting in these cases date of notice so the date of service is always at least 2 days later than the date of notice.

The regulations allow representations may be disregarded after 28 days beginning with the date of service, so until then they must consider your representation. likewise the CC cannot be served before 28 days beginning with date of service but the PCN says for both that the date of notice is the relevant date


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Rostafa
post Mon, 20 May 2019 - 13:37
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Ok, I understand biggrin.gif That seems an incredibly simple thing for them to get wrong and omit from the PCN - the way this PCN is written does not allow for the additional 2 days, therefore, in all likelihood, all are incorrect if served in the post?!

I will draft my appeal when I have time and post it for review first
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Rostafa
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 11:43
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Good Afternoon

Please cast your eyes over my appeal and let me know what you think? Thanks for all your help to date, greatly appreciated

--------------

Dear Sir or Madam,

Penalty Charge Notice Number: IZ11825685

I am writing to formally appeal the PCN IZ11825685 – 53J failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone on the grounds that this contravention did not occur due to inadequate signage, which was amplified further due nature of the approaching road.

In the notice of rejection, it states 'signage in place at this location' and 'these photographs also show the advance warning notices of restrictions along with the notice at each entrance to the road.' This is not the case. There are no advance warning signs along the approaching road to Sussex Way. At the opposite end of Sussex Way to where I received the PCN, and other adjacent roads implicated by the restriction, there are bright yellow advance warning signs before the junctions, which are clearly visible when driving, making it much more difficult to miss the signs.

I've driven this route many times after work and never had this problem. The approaching road, Tollington Park, is busy and, although it has two-way traffic, the fast majority of it only allows for single file traffic due the restricted width caused by parked cars. This exacerbates the issue of lack of signage. The sign is set back at the beginning of Sussex Way, by the time you make the turn there is only a split second to be able to see and read it, and there is a great amount of information to take in, in the meantime whilst concentrating on the road itself. By the time you have made the turn you are committed, it is too late to turn around, and the supposed contravention has been made.
In addition, the wording of the PCN does not comply with the requirements of the London Local Authorities and Transport Act 2003. In particular, Section 4(8)(a) provides that a penalty (iii)… must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice; (v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable; (vi) the amount of the increased charge; (viii) that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and (b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.
Paragraph 1 of Schedule 1(3) states ‘The enforcing authority may disregard any such representations which are received by them after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice in question was served.’

The PCN states ‘The penalty charge of £130 must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this Notice…If you do not pay or do not make representations before the end of the 28 day period the charge may increase by 50% to £195. ’ The PCN only provides a date of notice (23 April 2019), there is no date of service. The service is deemed to be two working days after the date of posting, in this case, from the date of notice. Therefore, if I had not made representations, Islington Council could have legally issued a charge certificate on 23 May 2019, however, the PCN states that they could serve this on 21 May 2019.
In the circumstances, even if you consider the signage to be adequate, I believe that the error made on the PCN to be significant enough for the PCN to cancelled and my appeal upheld.

Yours faithfully,

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cp8759
post Thu, 23 May 2019 - 15:28
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I think we can do a bit better than that, here's a draft I've assembled: http://bit.ly/2weDB8L

You will need to download it, add in your name and the tribunal case reference (see bits in red), change all the text to black and upload as pdf to the tribunal website. Also upload a copy of Robert Atlas v London Borough of Barnet (2170053479, 24 April 2017) which you can get here: http://bit.ly/2KCRlnX

Don't add stuff like Dear Sir or Madam or Yours faithfully, it's not a letter.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Rostafa
post Thu, 23 May 2019 - 16:36
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Thanks so much!

I will let you know how I get on
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