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Toll Bridge Invoice
lolotte
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 20:20
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my car was driven over Itchen Bridge in Southampton on the 29th Feb and being the drivers first time they have ever used the bridge (only lived in the city a year - I know, not an excuse)

They pulled up and didn't realise they don't take card. seems daft......they didn't have change on them and so they reversed (safely) and turned around and went via Bitterne.

today, i received the letter through the post dated 16th March. It was sent second class.

the top of the letter says 'failure to pay authorised toll charge but then below it says 'Contravention: Prohibited U-Turn'

It says it's an invoice but then says I can be prosecuted.

The fine/invoice is £16.20 (£1.20 toll and £15 admin charge) but if it's a matter of the U-Turn, can they still charge the toll?
While typing this, i noticed they charged for both ways. that's a real kick in the teeth. as the car didn't pass the toll booth.

I now see the sign on google map that says no u-turn.

Realistically, what can someone do in that situation? not that they will make the mistake again... but if someone was to pull up and not have the correct change

they haven't provided any photo evidence either. should I be asking for that?



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post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 20:20
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DancingDad
post Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 12:47
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 12:25) *
QUOTE (Korting @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 00:23) *
Is this an offence or a contravention?

Its a byelaw offence (see upthread for byelaw details).


??
It derives from an Act, not a bylaw.
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Fredd
post Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 13:02
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 12:47) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 12:25) *
QUOTE (Korting @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 00:23) *
Is this an offence or a contravention?

Its a byelaw offence (see upthread for byelaw details).


??
It derives from an Act, not a bylaw.

So? The Act allows for the making of Byelaws for control of traffic; so while deliberately avoiding the toll or failing to name the driver would be specific offences under the Act, whereas the U-turn would be an offence under the Byelaw authorised by the Act. It still ends up in the same place, doesn't it?


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baroudeur
post Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:29
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QUOTE (lolotte @ Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 18:11) *
There is a sign going up from Saltmarsh Road and Albert Road N but not Central Bridge, where they came from, as can be seen on google maps. they didnt see one but then again, they werent looking for one. havent gone to look myself yet but think google will be quite recent



Then this sign was missed going from Central Bridge to Itchen Bridge and it includes details of payment methods.

This post has been edited by baroudeur: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:35
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lolotte
post Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:39
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:29) *
QUOTE (lolotte @ Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 18:11) *
There is a sign going up from Saltmarsh Road and Albert Road N but not Central Bridge, where they came from, as can be seen on google maps. they didnt see one but then again, they werent looking for one. havent gone to look myself yet but think google will be quite recent



Then this sign was missed going from Central Bridge to Itchen Bridge and it includes details of payment methods.


A bit late to change direction...
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cp8759
post Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 17:57
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At present, there is still no request for a driver nomination and the council cannot prosecute anyone due to lack of evidence. Whether the driver wants to pay the invoice is up to them, thought it appears to be a lawfully owed civil debt so it might be a sensible option. lolotte, as the registered keeper you are not under an obligation to do anything at this time.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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IanJohnsonWS14
post Wed, 27 Mar 2019 - 08:07
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 24 Mar 2019 - 16:30) *
If I was at work and the OP was my client it would literally have cost him more for me to write this than pay it. Life’s too short.


Or to put it another way, is it worth losing half a day's holiday to attend court to defend the case.





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baroudeur
post Wed, 27 Mar 2019 - 10:15
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QUOTE (lolotte @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:39) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:29) *
QUOTE (lolotte @ Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 18:11) *
There is a sign going up from Saltmarsh Road and Albert Road N but not Central Bridge, where they came from, as can be seen on google maps. they didnt see one but then again, they werent looking for one. havent gone to look myself yet but think google will be quite recent



Then this sign was missed going from Central Bridge to Itchen Bridge and it includes details of payment methods.


A bit late to change direction...



Or these signs if approaching from Albert Road and Saltmarsh Road
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lolotte
post Wed, 27 Mar 2019 - 21:28
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Wed, 27 Mar 2019 - 10:15) *
QUOTE (lolotte @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:39) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:29) *
QUOTE (lolotte @ Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 18:11) *
There is a sign going up from Saltmarsh Road and Albert Road N but not Central Bridge, where they came from, as can be seen on google maps. they didnt see one but then again, they werent looking for one. havent gone to look myself yet but think google will be quite recent



Then this sign was missed going from Central Bridge to Itchen Bridge and it includes details of payment methods.


A bit late to change direction...



Or these signs if approaching from Albert Road and Saltmarsh Road



Please read the rest of the thread.
Thanks

ps. first link doesn't work

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 17:57) *
At present, there is still no request for a driver nomination and the council cannot prosecute anyone due to lack of evidence. Whether the driver wants to pay the invoice is up to them, thought it appears to be a lawfully owed civil debt so it might be a sensible option. lolotte, as the registered keeper you are not under an obligation to do anything at this time.



Can they recover in a civil court the money from the registered keeper?

This post has been edited by lolotte: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 - 21:27
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baroudeur
post Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 15:53
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QUOTE (lolotte @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:39) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:29) *
QUOTE (lolotte @ Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 18:11) *
There is a sign going up from Saltmarsh Road and Albert Road N but not Central Bridge, where they came from, as can be seen on google maps. they didnt see one but then again, they werent looking for one. havent gone to look myself yet but think google will be quite recent



Then this sign was missed going from Central Bridge to Itchen Bridge and it includes details of payment methods.


A bit late to change direction...


Apologies. I had read the whole thread but overlooked that you had referred to Albert Rd and Saltmarsh road signage.

There is a justifiable argument that the one sign on the approach to Itchen Bridge from the junction with Albert and Saltmarsh leaves it too late to take avoiding action from the right hand, straight ahead lane. There are small signs in Terminus Terrace on the approach to Central Bridge which indicate a toll bridge but without detail. Unfortunately, this does nothing to alleviate the situation in which you have found yourself.
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lolotte
post Sat, 30 Mar 2019 - 16:28
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 15:53) *
QUOTE (lolotte @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:39) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 14:29) *
QUOTE (lolotte @ Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 18:11) *
There is a sign going up from Saltmarsh Road and Albert Road N but not Central Bridge, where they came from, as can be seen on google maps. they didnt see one but then again, they werent looking for one. havent gone to look myself yet but think google will be quite recent



Then this sign was missed going from Central Bridge to Itchen Bridge and it includes details of payment methods.


A bit late to change direction...


Apologies. I had read the whole thread but overlooked that you had referred to Albert Rd and Saltmarsh road signage.

There is a justifiable argument that the one sign on the approach to Itchen Bridge from the junction with Albert and Saltmarsh leaves it too late to take avoiding action from the right hand, straight ahead lane. There are small signs in Terminus Terrace on the approach to Central Bridge which indicate a toll bridge but without detail. Unfortunately, this does nothing to alleviate the situation in which you have found yourself.


"WOLSTON
via toll bridge"

That one? I missed it when I looked on google maps.

If it's not a defence I'll end up paying it
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cp8759
post Mon, 1 Apr 2019 - 19:10
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lolotte you don't have to pay anything. You could give the notice to the driver and see if they want to pay.

It's unlikely the council will ever prosecute anyone over this. I'm also not sure it would be worthwhile for the council to sue the driver over the missing money. However, the debt does appear to be lawfully owed so the right thing to do would be for the driver to pay.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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lolotte
post Tue, 2 Apr 2019 - 10:52
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 1 Apr 2019 - 19:10) *
lolotte you don't have to pay anything. You could give the notice to the driver and see if they want to pay.

It's unlikely the council will ever prosecute anyone over this. I'm also not sure it would be worthwhile for the council to sue the driver over the missing money. However, the debt does appear to be lawfully owed so the right thing to do would be for the driver to pay.


i was wording it how i have so far as the 'how to post', post says to write that.
what if in this situation i was the driver?
(this is in no way an admission, just hypothetical)

edit - just seen the last part 'the right thing to do would be for the driver to pay'

lesson learned for the driver, thats for sure

This post has been edited by lolotte: Tue, 2 Apr 2019 - 10:53
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cp8759
post Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 13:54
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QUOTE (lolotte @ Tue, 2 Apr 2019 - 11:52) *
i was wording it how i have so far as the 'how to post', post says to write that.
what if in this situation i was the driver?
(this is in no way an admission, just hypothetical)

To be honest it would make little difference, because the council would still need to serve a proper request to identify the driver or else they have no evidence of who is driving. But the nomination would still be inadmissible in criminal proceedings and as you can't be compelled to testify against yourself in open court, it would make a criminal prosecution pretty much impossible.

They could however, in theory, sue you for the money in the small claims court.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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