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PCN Contravention Code 25 in Bromley
caruser64
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 16:51
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Hi

Would really appreciate your help/advice on a PCN Code 25 I received in Bromley High Street in South London.

I parked in a bay which was half a parking bay and half a loading bay. There were two signs in the whole bay but I only saw the parking one and there was clearly a ticket machine on the bay so one would assume you needed a ticket to park which I purchased. I have proof of my ticket on an email which I can send the council along with my appeal if you think it's worth appealing?!? Two signs in one bay is very misleading and it wasn't clear to me that half if it was a loading bay.

I have attached pics and GSV below.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/British+H...#33;4d0.0162518

My pics:
https://ibb.co/6rqTH5F (PCN)
https://ibb.co/gR8GNZP
https://ibb.co/swJPyqG
https://ibb.co/5jx94dx
https://ibb.co/9p7nzjC (parking sign)
https://ibb.co/m6dDPkx
https://ibb.co/M6R5VxX
https://ibb.co/nfkmcWc
https://ibb.co/PhxBCvr
https://ibb.co/x1Qwtbr
https://ibb.co/vVNhLs4
https://ibb.co/L0GqD5X
https://ibb.co/7yM8nnm
https://ibb.co/H7tqqZF (loading bay sign)

Council's pics

https://ibb.co/g4zKZ5v
https://ibb.co/GFwjBy6
https://ibb.co/MyH7Jz7
https://ibb.co/c3fDBL1

Also I found this on a .gov website where it states a 5 minute observation period is to be applied but the CEO was there from 13.01 until 13.05 which is 4 minutes. https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/furthe...vention-code-25

I have until the end of the day tomorrow to pay the reduced amount of the fine. If I appeal and it gets rejected can I still pay the reduced amount if I get by appeal in by end of play tomorrow?

Please let me know if you need anymore info.

Many thanks for your help in advance.

Best wishes.
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post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 16:51
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stamfordman
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 17:51
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Looks like you missed the demarcation between bays? Both bays look properly signed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4058329,0.0...6384!8i8192

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 17:52
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cp8759
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 19:31
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QUOTE (caruser64 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 17:51) *
Also I found this on a .gov website where it states a 5 minute observation period is to be applied but the CEO was there from 13.01 until 13.05 which is 4 minutes. https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/furthe...vention-code-25

Bromley is not in Northern Ireland though.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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caruser64
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 19:38
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 18:51) *
Looks like you missed the demarcation between bays? Both bays look properly signed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4058329,0.0...6384!8i8192


Yes completely missed it as I parked in front of the loading bay sign and went to buy my ticket seeing as the ticket machine was right in front of me as was the parking sign. So should I just pay it? And do you know if I appeal within the 14 days 50% reduction whether this will still apply it my appeal gets declined?

Thanks
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cp8759
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 19:41
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QUOTE (caruser64 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:38) *
And do you know if I appeal within the 14 days 50% reduction whether this will still apply it my appeal gets declined?

Post the back of the PCN, it normally says something about the discount being re-offered.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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caruser64
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 19:45
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:31) *
QUOTE (caruser64 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 17:51) *
Also I found this on a .gov website where it states a 5 minute observation period is to be applied but the CEO was there from 13.01 until 13.05 which is 4 minutes. https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/furthe...vention-code-25

Bromley is not in Northern Ireland though.


Yes I do realise that thank you. Is in the UK. Are the rules not the same? Only reference I could find to code 25.

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:41) *
QUOTE (caruser64 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:38) *
And do you know if I appeal within the 14 days 50% reduction whether this will still apply it my appeal gets declined?

Post the back of the PCN, it normally says something about the discount being re-offered.


Sorry, just read it now and it does! Great thanks!
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cp8759
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 19:48
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QUOTE (caruser64 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:45) *
Yes I do realise that thank you. Is in the UK. Are the rules not the same? Only reference I could find to code 25.

There are no "rules" on observation times, and the website you found is that of the Northern Ireland executive, so it's irrelevant I'm afraid.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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caruser64
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 19:59
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Member No.: 109,709



QUOTE (caruser64 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:38) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 18:51) *
Looks like you missed the demarcation between bays? Both bays look properly signed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4058329,0.0...6384!8i8192


Yes completely missed it as I parked in front of the loading bay sign and went to buy my ticket seeing as the ticket machine was right in front of me as was the parking sign. So should I just pay it? And do you know if I appeal within the 14 days 50% reduction whether this will still apply it my appeal gets declined?

Thanks


It's so unfair and misleading that they have 2 different signs for 1 bay, 2 parts (half) of which are parking and 1 (the other half) for loading and especially on a Sunday when a parking ticket machine is in full view and right in front of me! I paid for 1 hour of parking just going to the apple store to get my young son's iPad repaired so he can do his homework while I am working on my laptop. The council must make so much money from misleading parking signs!! Grr makes me so angry.

Thanks



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:48) *
QUOTE (caruser64 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:45) *
Yes I do realise that thank you. Is in the UK. Are the rules not the same? Only reference I could find to code 25.

There are no "rules" on observation times, and the website you found is that of the Northern Ireland executive, so it's irrelevant I'm afraid.


Thanks! They're buggers!!
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hcandersen
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 21:02
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OP, day 14 is TODAY, 17th, so whether you pay the discount or make reps you have 127 minutes.

It's so unfair and misleading that they have 2 different signs for 1 bay


Not at all. The signs are regular and make most efficient use of the carriageway.

I know it's difficult to accept responsibility and easier to export the blame to others. But this would be wrong and you would not learn from the experience, thus potentially placing you in jeopardy in the future.

In a parking place the sequence is: lines then signs.

If you have time:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/contents/made

Schedules 3,4,5,6,7 and 9.
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caruser64
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 21:34
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 22:02) *
OP, day 14 is TODAY, 17th, so whether you pay the discount or make reps you have 127 minutes.

It's so unfair and misleading that they have 2 different signs for 1 bay


Not at all. The signs are regular and make most efficient use of the carriageway.

I know it's difficult to accept responsibility and easier to export the blame to others. But this would be wrong and you would not learn from the experience, thus potentially placing you in jeopardy in the future.

In a parking place the sequence is: lines then signs.

If you have time:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/contents/made

Schedules 3,4,5,6,7 and 9.


Thanks for your reply.

Surely if I got the PCN a week ago Sunday ie 4th Oct, 14 days would be tomorrow?

Re your comment "I know it's difficult to accept responsibility and easier to export the blame to others. But this would be wrong and you would not learn from the experience, thus potentially placing you in jeopardy in the future." I'm not exporting the blame to others and there's no need to sound so condescending, I'm saying the signs are misleading when in clear sight is a parking ticket machine!!


QUOTE (caruser64 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 22:27) *
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 22:02) *
OP, day 14 is TODAY, 17th, so whether you pay the discount or make reps you have 127 minutes.

It's so unfair and misleading that they have 2 different signs for 1 bay


Not at all. The signs are regular and make most efficient use of the carriageway.

I know it's difficult to accept responsibility and easier to export the blame to others. But this would be wrong and you would not learn from the experience, thus potentially placing you in jeopardy in the future.

In a parking place the sequence is: lines then signs.

If you have time:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/contents/made

Schedules 3,4,5,6,7 and 9.


Thanks for your reply.

Surely if I got the PCN a week ago Sunday ie 4th Oct, 14 days would be tomorrow?

Re your comment "I know it's difficult to accept responsibility and easier to export the blame to others. But this would be wrong and you would not learn from the experience, thus potentially placing you in jeopardy in the future." I'm not exporting the blame to others and there's no need to sound so condescending, I'm saying the signs are misleading when in clear sight is a parking ticket machine!!

and a parking sign!
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caruser64
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 23:22
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QUOTE (caruser64 @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:38) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 18:51) *
Looks like you missed the demarcation between bays? Both bays look properly signed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4058329,0.0...6384!8i8192


Yes completely missed it as I parked in front of the loading bay sign and went to buy my ticket seeing as the ticket machine was right in front of me as was the parking sign. So should I just pay it? And do you know if I appeal within the 14 days 50% reduction whether this will still apply it my appeal gets declined?

Thanks


PS it's one bay, not two. Theres enough parking for 4 vehicles. half is for parking and half is for loading. It's not displayed well that half is for loading if you park in front of that part of the parking bay.

This post has been edited by caruser64: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 23:24
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cp8759
post Sun, 18 Oct 2020 - 17:47
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QUOTE (caruser64 @ Sun, 18 Oct 2020 - 00:22) *
PS it's one bay, not two. Theres enough parking for 4 vehicles. half is for parking and half is for loading. It's not displayed well that half is for loading if you park in front of that part of the parking bay.

The law says that this double line marking https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4058329,0.0...6384!8i8192 means there's two bays and that puts you on notice to look for another sign.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 18 Oct 2020 - 17:55
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QUOTE
Surely if I got the PCN a week ago Sunday ie 4th Oct, 14 days would be tomorrow?



No you must count the 4th as day one the regulations state beginning with the date of service


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