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[NIP Wizard] Error on NIP,missing tick boxes in template
Morrisonswont ge...
post Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 13:27
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - July 2019
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 17 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M5, J16-17 Southbound, S Glos, UNITED KINGDOM
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - On the day in question I was approaching Bristol from the North intending to leave the motorway at Junction 17, at no point was I aware that a temporary speed limit was in force. It seems that as I was de-accelerating to move to the outside lane in readiness for the junction I was requiring that I passed under a gantry showing the temp limit of 50mph, at this point in time I was measured at 62mph by the camera m5-8347a, which is an unknown distance from the gantry I passed under showing the temporary speed limit.
So I received a NIP, only when inspecting the NIP form to follow the instructions to fill it in I noticed that the instructions categorically stated to tick boxes to indicate certain statements on the NIP. Below is the text of a letter I sent to the police indicating the problem and requesting their help to give me a form that is physically possible to fill out.
I would be interested to know the thoughts of others on this problem as its possible many other motorists will have also received a NIP which is also impossible to fill out to the letter of the instructions.

"
Dear Sir
I have recently returned from holiday and it looks like I have received a NIP from the speed enforcement unit of Avon and Somerset Police. I have been trying to follow the instruction steps on page 3 of the document to complete page 2 “Reply to Notice Form” and cannot due to errors in the form.
The opening paragraph on page 2 states that the “addressee must reply by completing all 3 steps in this form” which for the reasons stated below I cannot do. I'm not sure whether its an offence to knowingly be unable to send in correct or incorrect information but I would prefer not to risk this obviously.
Step 1
I have filled in my details as requested however in step 1 I am asked to “Tick box if driving licence is issued by the DVLA”, however as no box is present on the form to tick I cannot therefore confirm if my driving licence was or was not issued by the DVLA.
Step 2
The instructions in this section state “The addressee must put a cross in ONE of the boxes below to indicate their reply.” The statements 1 to 4 below this instruction do not contain any boxes to allow the recipient to correctly put a cross in, and state their case. Therefore as in Step 1 it is impossible to follow the prescribed course and state which action I wish to declare.
Therefore I am writing to request your advice and to request a new form be sent that enables me to correctly state my position within the 28 day time-frame I have for this response which would be before the 28th Aug 2019 I understand.
I have enclosed your original NIP document as sent to myself and filled in to the maximum that is logically possible in the circumstances, as it is of no use to myself or yourselves for purpose.

Warmest Regards"


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 13:27:36 +0000
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post Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 13:27
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The Rookie
post Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 13:47
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The law (S172) requires a reply naming the driver, whether tick boxes for the S172 response (not a legal document, you can reply in the form of a letter if you want) being wrong would have no effect on whether the S1 warning NIP was valid or not and the same for the S172 request. Being somewhat anal is unlikely to help you one iota and may result in a worse outcome due to them deciding to withhold a course or fixed penalty which may otherwise have been offered.

The photo is as you pass under the gantry that acts as either the terminal (first) sign or a later repeater sign, the speed limit applies from the first sign.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
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Jlc
post Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 13:50
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QUOTE (Morrisonswont get my cash @ Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 14:27) *
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 17 days after the offence

You need to explain this?

What's stopping you replying to the NIP (presumably with a request to name the driver under s172 RTA) with your own letter? (And supplying the necessary information)

As it's A&S it's usually a 'super NIP' which allows includes a CoFP? (3 points £100)

As long as the necessary parts of the warning are there then you can be prosecuted for failing to nominate the driver if you don't supply it (and almost certainly still liable for the underlying offence even if tick boxes are absent).

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 13:50


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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mdann52
post Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 20:10
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That section is one I travel regularly, the camera is on the side of the gantry, and is 2 gantrys before J17. It's often set to 50mph at the minute (with the previous one set to 60), presumably due to the roadworks and 50mph limit pretty much immediately after.

Whether you saw the signs or not, this is a HADECS3 camera, so there will be a capture of the speed sign in force at the time of the offence with the photos of the vehicle the police have, which is presumably checked before the form is sent to you.
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NewJudge
post Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 21:06
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Any news on why you might have received the NIP after 17 days?
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BaggieBoy
post Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 21:23
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 22:06) *
Any news on why you might have received the NIP after 17 days?

Suspect it was due to being on holiday, as recounted in the OP.
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