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Assistance required on impending NIP case
Will4long
post Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 17:45
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Hi,
Looking for guidance if possible regards a potential impending NIP.

Allegedly I have been caught speeding by a SPEC camera doing 86 in a 60mph zone. The alleged vehicle was a rental car of which they received 1st form to complete. They must have completed this form with the address of my Company headquarters whom are responsible for making the reservations.
One of my company`s admin team have emailed me a copy of the NIP they have received which is not addressed nor named to myself. I have not received a NIP to my home address either.

They way I see it, I cannot legally fill in this form as not addressed to me. Is that correct ?


Also, having looked at the photographs on the public access system, there is no way I can make out the registration of the vehicle on any of the pics. Is that normal ?

Any guidance appreciated. Thanks
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post Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 17:45
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The Rookie
post Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 18:14
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The responsibility to reply falls on the addressee, in the case of a company that can be an officer of the company or a nominated person, the company can nominate you to reply on its behalf but it’s the company that would be punished if you didn’t.

Most company’s will just name the driver without asking them to do so.

Quite normal, but clearly they have read it from the originals which are likely of a better quality.


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Will4long
post Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 19:04
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 18:14) *
The responsibility to reply falls on the addressee, in the case of a company that can be an officer of the company or a nominated person, the company can nominate you to reply on its behalf but it’s the company that would be punished if you didn’t.

Most company’s will just name the driver without asking them to do so.

Quite normal, but clearly they have read it from the originals which are likely of a better quality.


Ok, thanks for clarifying.

So many more questions though:


Should I reply my company`s email which asked if had dealt with the matter ?
If yes, then should I just state I cannot complete as the NIP not delivered to my home address nor named on the NIP they have ?
If yes, should I delay the response as much as possible ? Alleged offence was 25th February 2019, the NIP my company has is dated 27th March.

I currently have 6 points from 2 separate speeding offences 2.5years ago, so this alleged offence could be painful.

This post has been edited by Will4long: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 19:06
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NewJudge
post Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 19:52
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Has your company asked you to reply on their behalf? Would you normally deal with such matters?

If I were you I would ask them to respond naming you. Then you will get your own NIP. As stated, if no response is received to this one it is the company who will commit an offence. No penalty points can be warded against the company but they will receive a hefty fine. It is the company which has 28 days to respond, not you. I'm not really clear why they should ask you to become involved (except out of courtesy to let you know what has happened). Any delay you cause replying to their e-Mail does not alter their obligation to respond in time. There's nothing to stop them replying immediately. They don't need any co-operation from you.
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Will4long
post Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 20:03
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 19:52) *
Has your company asked you to reply on their behalf? Would you normally deal with such matters?

If I were you I would ask them to respond naming you. Then you will get your own NIP. As stated, if no response is received to this one it is the company who will commit an offence. No penalty points can be warded against the company but they will receive a hefty fine. It is the company which has 28 days to respond, not you. I'm not really clear why they should ask you to become involved (except out of courtesy to let you know what has happened). Any delay you cause replying to their e-Mail does not alter their obligation to respond in time. There's nothing to stop them replying immediately. They don't need any co-operation from you.


Understood. Thanks. They have not asked me to reply on their behalf. They asked "Please can you confirm you have dealt with this matter?"

I will leave it a few days then and reply No, I haven`t dealt with it as I have not had any NIP addressed to myself.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 08:34
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QUOTE (Will4long @ Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 20:03) *
They asked "Please can you confirm you have dealt with this matter?"

Which is amusing, how can you have dealt with something you weren't yet aware of, its also clear that reading/comprehension is an issue as just reading the letter would tell them what they have to do.

CAVEAT: Is it addressed to you c/o the co. or just to the company?


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Will4long
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 09:00
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 08:34) *
QUOTE (Will4long @ Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 20:03) *
They asked "Please can you confirm you have dealt with this matter?"

Which is amusing, how can you have dealt with something you weren't yet aware of, its also clear that reading/comprehension is an issue as just reading the letter would tell them what they have to do.

CAVEAT: Is it addressed to you c/o the co. or just to the company?



Addressed to:

To the Company Secretary or Clerk (if applicable)
"MY EMPLOYERS NAME"
"MY EMPLOYERS ADDRESS"


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Fredd
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 09:32
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Those notices invariably have a very prominent statement to the effect that they're only to be completed by the addressee, ie the Company Secretary (or equivalent) in your case. Perhaps you should quote the appropriate part of the text to them, since they appear to be hard of reading.


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Will4long
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 10:16
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Indeed I shall, but not sure if any point in delaying my response to them so will reply next week.

If likely that the NIP will eventually end up at my home address, any guidance on next stages, especially with having 6 points already from 2 x SP30 convictions in 2016 ?


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The Rookie
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 10:19
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Start preparing your exceptional hardship plea.

Your appear to be clearly guilty of speeding (the highest UK limit being 70 and you've not mentioned you think it's incorrect) and that speed/limit is likely to result in 6 points and you risk a 6 month totting ban.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Logician
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 10:40
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The 3 years is offence date to offence date, so the date of your earliest offence in 2016 is important, if it is more than 3 years prior to this latest offence you will end up with 9 points rather than 12. Also delaying the court date does not assist you.


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Will4long
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 11:08
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 10:19) *
Start preparing your exceptional hardship plea.

Your appear to be clearly guilty of speeding (the highest UK limit being 70 and you've not mentioned you think it's incorrect) and that speed/limit is likely to result in 6 points and you risk a 6 month totting ban.


I think I better get some decent legal assistance then. Thanksz
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The Rookie
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 11:56
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You don't need legal assistance (beyond the advice you can get on here for free) for an EH plea.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Will4long
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 12:17
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 11:56) *
You don't need legal assistance (beyond the advice you can get on here for free) for an EH plea.


I wouldnt know where to start with an EH plea though Rookie nor if my currebt circumstances would be enough to be classed as EH.
I have seen it referenced that speed/limit conviction is 4-6points. Take it no chance of being 4 or 5 points issued ?
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Jlc
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 12:37
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Guidelines are 4-6 points. (81-90mph)

So 86 is kind of in the middle, so 5 points is possible...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 12:59
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QUOTE (Will4long @ Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 12:17) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 11:56) *
You don't need legal assistance (beyond the advice you can get on here for free) for an EH plea.


I wouldnt know where to start with an EH plea though Rookie nor if my currebt circumstances would be enough to be classed as EH.
I have seen it referenced that speed/limit conviction is 4-6points. Take it no chance of being 4 or 5 points issued ?

It's fairly simple and not technical legal language.

You think about all the things that would cause hardship to you and, much more importantly others. E.g. do you use your car to look after kids, help elderly relatives, a business relies on you having a licence. That should be fairly simple as you know the journeys you make.

Then you think about which ones are not consequences that you would automatically expect when a driver is banned.

E.g. it is expected that someone with a six month driving ban may well lose their job. However, if you have large financial commitments to others, your employer cannot easily replace you and the company would lose money or cut jobs - those are possible grounds for an EH plea.

Seeing as it costs nothing other than a bit of your time, it's worth trying an EH plea if you have even a small chance of it succeeding. A solicitor cannot write your EH plea for you without knowing the exact questions above - what you currently use your driving licence for.
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Ocelot
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 16:03
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It wouldn't be unusual to get less than 6 points for this offence, but you would be on 10 or 11 points so having to drive like Miss Daisy for the next 6 months.

You will only find out after your Court visit unfortunately, so best to prepare an EH plea, as others have suggested.
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666
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 16:15
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 16:03) *
It wouldn't be unusual to get less than 6 points for this offence, but you would be on 10 or 11 points so having to drive like Miss Daisy for the next 6 months.

You will only find out after your Court visit unfortunately, so best to prepare an EH plea, as others have suggested.


You haven't seen the film, have you?

If he drives like Miss Daisy he'll lose his licence PDQ.
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Ocelot
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 16:34
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I was referring to another Miss Daisy...one who drives very slowly. smile.gif
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Will4long
post Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 17:18
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 12:59) *
QUOTE (Will4long @ Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 12:17) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 11:56) *
You don't need legal assistance (beyond the advice you can get on here for free) for an EH plea.


I wouldnt know where to start with an EH plea though Rookie nor if my currebt circumstances would be enough to be classed as EH.
I have seen it referenced that speed/limit conviction is 4-6points. Take it no chance of being 4 or 5 points issued ?

It's fairly simple and not technical legal language.

You think about all the things that would cause hardship to you and, much more importantly others. E.g. do you use your car to look after kids, help elderly relatives, a business relies on you having a licence. That should be fairly simple as you know the journeys you make.

Then you think about which ones are not consequences that you would automatically expect when a driver is banned.

E.g. it is expected that someone with a six month driving ban may well lose their job. However, if you have large financial commitments to others, your employer cannot easily replace you and the company would lose money or cut jobs - those are possible grounds for an EH plea.

Seeing as it costs nothing other than a bit of your time, it's worth trying an EH plea if you have even a small chance of it succeeding. A solicitor cannot write your EH plea for you without knowing the exact questions above - what you currently use your driving licence for.


Ok, thanks for the guidance. Is the EH plea purely verbal then or do I require documents/proof relating to it ?

QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 16:03) *
It wouldn't be unusual to get less than 6 points for this offence, but you would be on 10 or 11 points so having to drive like Miss Daisy for the next 6 months.

You will only find out after your Court visit unfortunately, so best to prepare an EH plea, as others have suggested.


I`d happily settle for 5 points. I guess I`m at the mercy of the Judge on day then.
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