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hcandersen
Posted on: Today, 08:25


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OP, as per Neil B you must show us the documents you've got. This is your first and only action.

At present we have no idea where you are in the enforcement and appeals procedures and as these are governed by time, including potentially barring you from taking the matter any further, we must know what stage you've reached.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472931 · Replies: 3 · Views: 37

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 18:10


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simply argue that it is highly unlikely that it was issued at 10:10:00 and that as long as it is 10:10:01 or after then it satisfies the requirement.

Who cares when it was issued, wrapped, enveloped, stuck under a windscreen, the regs don't as has been spelled out.

The PCN says it all, and it's improper: a contravention at 10.00, as it states clearly, cannot give rise to a penalty because the authority are not empowered to demand one.

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472847 · Replies: 45 · Views: 605

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 18:03


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OP, more facts pl. Pl confirm the following:

At this end of Grafton Road the parking place runs continuously from no. 51 to no. 77.

The area to be suspended was '4xbays o/s 73-77.'

In respect of the area to be suspended the relevant traffic signs are situated o/s no. 67/69 and 75/77.

These signs did/did not carry a suspension notice.

The only suspension notice was situated on a tree o/s no. ***. (If true).

You posted 'There is a sign on one tree and not the tree where my car was parked.'. The real question is, however, where were the suspension notices located?

Inadvertently, you could misleading us because your total focus is on what the sign(singular, but you will confirm) said.

My focus is on whether the area to be suspended was signed correctly, irrespective of the sign's contents. To do this the council as a minimum had to place a notice on the last traffic sign before the area commenced and the one at its end, GSV suggests o/s no. 67/69 and 75/77. The tree is neither here nor there, a motorist does not go to a tree to read traffic signs, they go to proper poles carrying traffic signs.

If the sign o/s the flank walls of nos. 67/69 did not carry a sign, then IMO this is your primary argument because this was your direction of approach to the location. Followed closely by there not being a sign on the traffic sign o/s 75/77, if true.

More facts pl before you fire-off your challenges.

To be blunt, pl forget about the semantics of o/s being outside or opposite ( opposite??), it's frivoulous and merely undermines your credibility!
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472845 · Replies: 7 · Views: 85

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 08:26


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There are 3 stages to the appeals process, the first 2 being representations to the council, the last an appeal to the adjudicator.

You are still at stage 1, making representations to the council. This is free and in your case providing these are submitted no later than 23rd the discount is preserved.

If this is a first-time contravention then by all means submit reps (to arrive to later than 23rd) if only to apologise and ask them to exercise discretion.

IMO, they're unlikely to cancel so this is probably just going through the motions. The important point is to either pay the discount or have submitted reps by 23rd.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472678 · Replies: 13 · Views: 150

hcandersen
Posted on: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 23:17


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The driver parked on the footway in the mistaken belief that because they were not 'on' the DYL, they had found a way around the DYL restriction.

Unfortunately, they were not only in contravention of the DYL, they added parking in a road other than on the carriageway to the list of contraventions.

Given the observation period, there would appear to be no defence against the contravention.

I cannot see any procedural improprieties so far. (the 0845 reps fax charge would be less than the cost of a first-class stamp)


  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472659 · Replies: 13 · Views: 150

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 13:23


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Point taken.

I still feel it's bordering on, if not actually, unfair to require the use of the form and post given that no such requirement is placed upon challenging a PCN.

OP, irrespective of what you write you must esablish whether reps may be submitted by other means. Give them a call because the 'by post first-class option' wold not guarantee receipt by tomorrow.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472266 · Replies: 44 · Views: 1,382

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 13:06


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I don't see any point in writing to the authority for info which, if drafted properly, the reps would require in a notice of rejection in any event.

but I believe I would have parked the car in the residents bay on 21 January 2019. The notice shown in the pictures taken by the council is right next to my car yet I never noticed it. I do not have any proof of it

OP, the photos show where your car was at the time of the contravention, and you parked it! So there's no issue with belief in this regard, only whether you recall seeing the sign.

Presumably you didn't, therefore this is the total of your evidence: when I parked on **** there wasn't a sign in situ and I can only conclude that this was erected later. As it turns out, I was out of the country for a few days after the PCN was served (what evidence?) and therefore I shouldn't have been surprised that when I did find my car - the council having moved it into a bay on the opposite side of the road - there wasn't a PCN in situ, not that I was expecting one, and I was left scratching my head as to whether I was having a senior moment because I rarely park on that side of the road.

I am challenging this PCN on the grounds that the contravention did not occur because no advance warning was given of the suspension. In addition and separately I would ask the council to exercise discretion to cancel the PCN in the circumstances of this case or alternatively to re-offer the discount as the absence of a PCN did not give me the option of paying the discount.

If the authority do not cancel the PCN, then they should supply the suspension log for sign, including details of the date of the application and date and time of erection of the sign in question.

Would be my take.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472258 · Replies: 9 · Views: 103

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 11:30


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@cp, you make it sound too simple IMO.

Yes, you can make informal representations for as long as the Notice to Owner has not yet been served.

A recipient could make as many as they liked, but the duty on the authority is not seen in law as a requirement to continually respond to reps which make only the same point, they must introduce new arguments or new evidence in support of existing arguments.

As I read this, the OP has had at least 2 bites of the informal reps cherry already. I cannot see an adjudicator giving too much time to a PI argument in this instance.

OP, the last day of the 28-day period is 20th March, tomorrow.

And I cannot see an online/email option in the NTO, only postal. You must check this otherwise you could miss the deadline.

IMO, you should NOT use their form, it is not a requirement/limiting condition which they are empowered to impose, it's there for their administrative convenience. I'm not even certain about the statement of truth being a mandatory requirement:

(e)in general terms, the form and manner in which an appeal may be made.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472217 · Replies: 44 · Views: 1,382

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 09:48


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23.59 21/03/2019

2 days hence.

Time for action before enforcement action kicks off again.

In practice, you need to submit to TEC before 4pm tomorrow, preferably today.

PCN dated *** and all subsequent notices were sent to address at which you did not live because authority unknowingly used out of date address supplied by DVLA who were in the process of updating your details - I had notified them soon after moving - finally making the amendement to their records on ****, see enclosed copy of V5C.

You only became aware that anything was amiss when you received the NOE on *****.

An unfortunate conflict of timing.

These are the essential, unpadded, aspects.


(Just out of interest, what address is on the NOE, is it exactly the same as on your V5C? Interesting to know whether enforcement agents even used the DVLA records).:
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472180 · Replies: 31 · Views: 392

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 09:01


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The OP's opening post:


I have recently received a NtO from Warwickshire County Council for 'Parking wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space (21)'. I am looking to appeal on the basis the sign was (1) non-compliant and (2) defective.


No mention of the sign not being there and yet this is the direction of travel of the thread.

OP, only you know whether you saw the sign. Some say it's better for us to not ask the question for fear of getting the wrong answer or whatever. Suffice to say, if you did not see the sign, which the photos show clearly adjacent to your car, then say so.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472164 · Replies: 16 · Views: 224

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 08:35


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Pl post the other pages of the 'Right to Appeal' form.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472162 · Replies: 35 · Views: 800

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 16:39


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Yep, except we don't need streetview, we have an OP who lives on the spot.

Take a photo with the traffic sign in the foreground showing 8-10 and the continuous single yellow line up to the location of the alleged contravention. Try and capture all relevant facts in one photo if possible.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471976 · Replies: 14 · Views: 183

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 16:34


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To stress this point, you have to recover your vehicle first, there is no silver bullet available to otherwise compel the council to release the vehicle without payment.

Also advise us whether you are the registered keeper of the car and if your keeper details are up to date with DVLA NB. this is not the same as your driving licence, your car has a logbook(V5C) and you must keep these details up to date.

And what council and where did the roadworks take place? When was the car removed?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471971 · Replies: 4 · Views: 85

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 16:26


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OP, if you go to the location take photos of the noticeboard, it's these Ts and Cs which underpin everything else. Only after you have a clear picture of the conditions of use can we then move on to the bay and any signs and markings.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471966 · Replies: 11 · Views: 153

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 11:12


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Nothing written in a compliant (as to form etc.) traffic sign creates a statutory or legal requirement, but it would be prudent for all drivers to presume this is the case otherwise motoring could become even more expensive, and the BB booklet gives sensible advice in this regard.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471858 · Replies: 14 · Views: 203

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 10:59


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OP, the truth would inform the conviction behind any reps or appeal.

If you were driving, you know whether 'could have' means did or didn't. You also know whether you were aware of the restriction anyway.

In short, you know the truth and whether on this basis you would be relyng on a technical defence. This is not to say that such defences lack merit, far from it. But being clear in your own mind can only help.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471855 · Replies: 21 · Views: 219

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 10:27


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The contravention did not occur......because the suspended area was incorrectly signed, and

The penalty or other charge......, which naturally follows the above because if the PCN was improperly issued then all subsequent charges fall.


  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471844 · Replies: 28 · Views: 687

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 10:22


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For fun, pl post the other pages of the 'Right to Appeal' form.

Barrel, a, fish, shooting, in, like......reaarange to form a well-known phrase or saying.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471842 · Replies: 35 · Views: 800

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 09:20


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OP, can we get the photos sorted out pl.

All those in post #1 were taken in daylight, so not the CEO's contemporaneous photos.

Where are these?

All you need is their photo of the traffic sign. This demonstrates that:
a. It's not a DYL contravention because DYLs do not have time plates as they're 24/7, and
b. At the time of contravention (03.42), see enclosed copy of PCN served by the CEO, the restriction relied upon by the authority (8am to 10pm) was not in effect.

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471819 · Replies: 14 · Views: 183

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 09:05


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At adjudication you could consolidate them provided you had a NOR in each case.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471812 · Replies: 22 · Views: 340

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 08:32


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I think we're getting off the subject. The contravention does not relate to a permit therefore at best this simply sets the background but cannot be a determinant legal factor.

You must appeal all NORs. So, what are their dates pl?

If they relate to the same set of facts i.e. the car did not move, then a single appeal could be made for them all. But we must know the dates of the NORs.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471807 · Replies: 48 · Views: 1,206

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 16:32


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So these are company cars or employees' own cars, your reply is unclear.

If the former, then the company's liable for the penalties anyway so there's no parking regs jeopardy for the drivers. If the latter, is the company going to underwrite the full penalty to take this 'issue' to the adjudicator?

What issue?

Even if you could establish legitimate expectation - normally very unlikely - then you could only pull this rabbit out of the hat once after which there would be no defence on this point, so there's no issue for the future: the days of apparent wholesale parking on a central reservation in clear contravention of the waiting restriction are over.

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471661 · Replies: 13 · Views: 165

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 12:39


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Some of my colleagues...

Now when I've confronted the management of this councils parking services she informed me that they had been issued from the DYL's


So what's the position?

How many PCNs, challenges etc? Are the drivers the registered keepers of their vehicles, when does/do the discount(s) expire?

Have NTOs been served?

On the basis of the very little we know, the contravention is correct, the DYLs comply - let's be honest, the drivers parked there knowing the DYLs existed, not because they didn't know, otherwise the query regarding lines around the central reservation wouldn't arise!





  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471624 · Replies: 13 · Views: 165

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 10:24


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In short:
Were you in contravention? Yes.

Was a penalty payable? No.

Why? Because for that contravention that's what the law provides: no penalty is payable where the vehicle has been left ...for a period not exceeding 10 minutes.

Had your vehicle been left in contravention for more than 10 mnutes when the CEO determined that a penalty was payable? No.

What evidence? The CEO's own i.e. the time on the PCN.



  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471591 · Replies: 45 · Views: 605

hcandersen
Posted on: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 22:00


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We get there eventually.

I would go with the strongest challenge you can, it is time to put a stop to this nonsense. This is not a case of asking for discretion.

And the more you assert with reasoning the more that the authority are required to discover before answering.

The disabled bay does not exist in law; the transverse line is therefore improperly placed; you cannot commit a contravention associated with its existence; you were parked wholly within the only legal parking place in this instance.

Council, get a grip on your markings.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471528 · Replies: 31 · Views: 441

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