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Parkingeye second letter, Didn't get first letter
speedingsparkie5...
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 23:22
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Hi all,
I have searched the threads, so forgive please.
Asking on behalf of an offspring.
Parkingeye ticket for overstaying by 9 minutes in a supermarket car park.
Didn't receive a first letter. (I'm only assuming there was one, by the wording on the current letter)
Now have a second letter with 'Letter before county court claim' as the title.
Course of action please?
I'm not familiar with all the acronyms like POPLA so be gentle please.
Thank you.
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post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 23:22
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speedingsparkie5...
post Sun, 24 Mar 2019 - 13:45
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Sorry to resurrect this Guys. As stated I went away for a week.
OK, there has been a fresh development whilst I was away.
As stated earlier in the thread, the RK offspring is not on the electoral role at my address. Whilst I was away, PE have now contacted the RK offspring at partners address, having sourced the address through a credit agency.
They have contacted with the very first PCN , and an accompanying letter explaining how they are now contacting at this new address.
I have copies of these letters on WhatsApp but I'm such a dunce at technology I can't work out how to transfer them to an App/resource where they can be posted on here. Any pointers please?
Basically the new set of communications give a 14 day reduced charge to pay, and the standard stuff on the reverse. The letter that contains photo's of entry/exit times & dates is still the same dates as was originally sent, and the same DVLA RK address, not the partners address.
It still states 4 hours Max Stay and a set of times that amount to 4 Hours 10 minutes, - no mention of incomplete further minutes, as in the seconds.
Only the letter to partners address has a later date.
So, the chronology is:
PCN dated 16/01/19, stating event date of 11/01/19.
Letter to partners address dated 13/03/19, no heading, just stating why they are now writing to RK at this newly found address, offering a £50 (reduced from £85) charge if paid in 14 days.
Next step please?

I've just worked out how to email the pics to myself so might be posting the letters (suitably disguised) shortly.
Thanks for reading.

This post has been edited by speedingsparkie50: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 - 13:48
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speedingsparkie5...
post Sun, 24 Mar 2019 - 15:11
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Think I've managed to upload the two most relevant letters. The reverse is available if required. Thanks.


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speedingsparkie5...
post Sun, 24 Mar 2019 - 23:29
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Having read through several more threads, and also taken on board the advice in the Newbies thread on MSE, the appeal has been done.

Now I'm more clued up it's laughable. The photo's in the first letter for instance just show a number plate and one headlight in the dark, no evidence the car is actually entering the car park in question.
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speedingsparkie5...
post Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 16:21
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Update.
(Internal) Appeal was rejected.
POPLA code received.
Rejected on the basis that it is a maximum stay car park (of 4 hours) and the times on the ANPR cameras show a total from entering and leaving a total of 4 hrs 10 minutes.
No mention of parking time allowed, only 4 hrs allowed from entering the car park and leaving. Contract was seemingly formed by entering the car park, no time allowed to actually read the notices (in the dark and with the car still moving) which form the contract.

I'm aware that this is winnable but it's a disgrace that they are allowed to make people jump through hoops like this.
There was a further blurb - probably standard copy/paste issue - about the beavis court case which seemingly is exactly the same circumstances and that they (ParkingEye) won.
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Jlc
post Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 16:34
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QUOTE (speedingsparkie50 @ Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 17:21) *
...but it's a disgrace that they are allowed to make people jump through hoops like this.

Yup. But accepting appeals doesn't generate income.

QUOTE (speedingsparkie50 @ Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 17:21) *
There was a further blurb - probably standard copy/paste issue - about the beavis court case which seemingly is exactly the same circumstances and that they (ParkingEye) won.

At the Supreme Court...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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speedingsparkie5...
post Fri, 5 Apr 2019 - 21:04
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Hi Guys.
Any comments please, about the rather newish claim/alteration of terminology, regarding *maximum stay* car parks, as opposed to the original terminology of a set time of *car parking* allowed?
I mean has there been a court case or some sort of ruling/guidance that refutes *maximum stay* as a legal contract on the land in question.
I think you get what I mean.
Thanks.
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ostell
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 20:19
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You cannot agree to a contract if you haven't seen it and you haven't seen it while driving in. A contract cannot be retrospective, ie they can't say it started 5 minutes before you read the terms to agree to it. If the signs say 4 hours free parking then you weren't parking when you drove in front of the cameras.
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speedingsparkie5...
post Mon, 8 Apr 2019 - 14:28
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Thanks Ostell.
But in a *maximum stay* car park, you are effectively accepting the contract of maximum stay *after* reading the T & C's on the signage? When you have already entered the car park I mean. So it effectively is backdated to the time of entry by the driver agreeing to continue their stay in the said car park?
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ostell
post Mon, 8 Apr 2019 - 19:45
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You cannot back date a contract
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speedingsparkie5...
post Fri, 24 May 2019 - 22:20
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Update if anyone is interested.
The POPLA appeal was successful.
PE shot themselves in the foot really when they traced offspring at Partners address and started the ball rolling again from first letter PCN, which allowed the appeals process to commence, 1st appeal obviously rejected but crucially, a POPLA code was given.
To think that they had actually gone as far as a LBC, mind boggling really. I suppose there's a catchment of payers up to be had that keeps them in business.

Many thanks for all the advice and responses.
I'm now well clued up on the process involved, which is very useful since my previous brush was in the 'ignore it' days, before keeper liability was established.
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HappyHarry
post Sat, 25 May 2019 - 10:12
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Terrific result. Well done. Hope Offspring is grateful.


--------------------
“Nobody leaves their house because they want to go and do some parking; parking is simply a means to an end, and it should be as easy as possible.” Rishi Sunak, MP
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