Reading Borough Council - Code 21: Parked in a suspended bay or space or part of a bay or space |
Reading Borough Council - Code 21: Parked in a suspended bay or space or part of a bay or space |
Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 17:46
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 9 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,799 |
Hi there,
I'll start by saying I'm currently at the point of first rejection of my PCN appeal. I appealed on the grounds that Reading Borough Council has not received authorisation for their use of a temporary parking suspension sign from the Department of Transport, which I am to understand is a legal requirement as the DfT does not prescribe such a sign (noted that I incorrectly used the term 'lawful' interchangeably with 'legal' in my original appeal). I linked them to this page which presents all authorisations of "Temporary Parking Suspension Sign" since January 2011 - there is no such entry for this council on their list. I then asked them to provide evidence that they were authorised to do so after which point I'd happily comply. They do not address this requirement, vaguely stating that they conform with TSRGD 2016 - having done more research, I believe they're telling porkies as in my mind they cannot be compliant if no prescribed signage has been provided by DfT and they have not received authorisation that I can find in a list built specifically to externalise that information. Bare with my language used in the appeal, I'm not a legal professional and was simply giving the benefit of the doubt that it was an oversight (cynically of course). Further to this, I believe they've also been a bit lax in their appeal rejection letter when they state "If you still wish to dispute this PCN, the DVLA registered keeper will be sent a Notice to Owner...". I am to understand that the legislation does not permit them to state this as a certainty. They correctly write may on the original PCN, so not sure if it's worth quibbling here. My questions are: - Am I correct to appeal on the first ground that they can't legally issue the PCN? - If yes to the above, what is the best way to word this formally for the NtO? I believe I should probably keep it lean and to the point on the legality of it all? - I know some cases have been posted on this site to help with this sort of thing, can someone point me to pertinent ones here? Not asking for handouts, just directions I'll try and attach all evidence as required in a reply to this, for some reason the attachments editor is playing up at the moment. I have 11 days remaining before my 50% reduction runs out Thanks in advance! Please find copies of communications |
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Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 17:46
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Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 18:02
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#2
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 9 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,799 |
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Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 18:47
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Two grounds I can see:
The sign isn't authorised The council has failed to consider your representations: The sign cannot be substantially compliant with the TSRGD 2016 as there's nothing in the 2016 regulations that's remotely similar to that sign. This should be a winner, but you'll have to take it to the tribunal to win (Reading don't seem to back down), so forget about the discount as the full amount will be in play. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 19:05
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#4
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
+1
OP--- you are on the right lines because I believe the Campbell case confirmed that a suspension sign did not exist within the TSRGDs 2002 and that still applies to the 2016 iteration. Therefore to be a Sect 64/65 RTRA 1984 traffic sign Councils have to get DfT approval on each and every sign. Of course, Reading may have a pre-2011 approval but I doubt it. You still need other points for an appeal---did you see the suspension sign? Did you park before it was erected? Were you in the restricted area? etc etc. If you are still concerned about the discount, go back to them again and insist on them giving you the DfT approval for that suspension sign. If they don't have it ---ask them how their sign is enforceable Mick This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 19:08 |
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Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 07:04
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 9 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,799 |
Thanks both for your responses, glad I wasn't just completely misunderstanding the legislation and guidance.
@Mick - When I parked there were only "no stopping" cones along one half of that side of the road, I had parked just after those cones finished, but there were no signs up at the time. It was only after a couple of days (we'd not used the car since I parked) when those signs were up as were the roadworks and we had a shiny yellow PCN stuck to our windscreen. That being said, I have no evidence of this as I wasn't expecting to receive said PCN - so it's their word against mine with that one. |
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Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 07:16
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#6
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Good---so we have other grounds to complement the duff suspension sign.
If the sign wasn't erected at the time you parked--- then you were legally parked. The Council should have a suspension log which details the VRM of each vehicle in situ when the sign was erected--that's your proof. If they haven't got a log-- why are they not following procedure? If you were there for a couple of days check with the Council to make sure you only have one PCN. So now we have the duff sign and that you were legally parked anyway. Mick |
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Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 17:41
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#7
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 9 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,799 |
Just an update to say that I've made an FOI request for evidence of their authorisation which will be used in the NtO.
They have 20 days to get back to me so I doubt that I'll receive it during the cut off window - they cunningly don't allow me to use the 'Contact us' option on the website after the first appeal (though they don't state that anywhere). I'll give them a ring tomorrow and try to hassle them about both the authorisation and their suspension log of VRM details. Thanks for help so far. This post has been edited by Lozenger: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 17:42 |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Wednesday, 10th April 2024 - 21:23 |