PCN code 21 |
PCN code 21 |
Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 23:39
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 10 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,895 |
Hi everyone,
Apologies in advance if any information is missing - please ask if anything is required and I will be happy to provide. I have received a PCN from Bedford Borough Council stating that I have parked in a suspended bay/space - code 21. Upon coming back to my car and seeing the PCN I then noticed the notice adjacent to the parking bay, the sign states this is due to ongoing building work, but the ticket was late in the evening around 9PM + There are no errors on the PCN, I have attached a photo of the signage to see if there's anything that can be done to contest this? Update: Added PCN, side view with very crude drawing to show where car was parked (blue) and where container was (red) and a front view of the road with multi-storey car park in clear view - hope this helps! This post has been edited by Stronz91: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 22:37 |
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Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 23:39
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Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 23:45
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Hi everyone, Apologies in advance if any information is missing - please ask if anything is required and I will be happy to provide. I have received a PCN from Bedford Borough Council stating that I have parked in a suspended bay/space - code 21. Upon coming back to my car and seeing the PCN I then noticed the notice adjacent to the parking bay, the sign states this is due to ongoing building work, but the ticket was late in the evening around 9PM + There are no errors on the PCN, I have attached a photo of the signage to see if there's anything that can be done to contest this? post the PCN and all the council pics All bays adjacent to the works and storage area seems a bit vague -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 00:15
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 10 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,895 |
Hi everyone, Apologies in advance if any information is missing - please ask if anything is required and I will be happy to provide. I have received a PCN from Bedford Borough Council stating that I have parked in a suspended bay/space - code 21. Upon coming back to my car and seeing the PCN I then noticed the notice adjacent to the parking bay, the sign states this is due to ongoing building work, but the ticket was late in the evening around 9PM + There are no errors on the PCN, I have attached a photo of the signage to see if there's anything that can be done to contest this? post the PCN and all the council pics All bays adjacent to the works and storage area seems a bit vague Hi, many thanks for your swift reply. I've tried my best to attach a photo of the area and the bays adjacent to the container (there was no work going on, no marked off areas etc) Also attached PCN. If the photos are not good enough I can try to take a few tomorrow but they will be the same apart from the container to the right of my car (red in the picture) |
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Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 09:15
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#4
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Here's the authorisation which, unfortunately, contains a 6 month suspension limit:-
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-4164.pdf All spaces o/s the car park seems definite IMO. Nothing leaping out by way of possible grounds of appeal. Mick |
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Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 11:03
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Here's the authorisation which, unfortunately, contains a 6 month suspension limit:- http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-4164.pdf All spaces o/s the car park seems definite IMO. Nothing leaping out by way of possible grounds of appeal. Mick @ MMV Mick all spaces o/s car park would be definitive, but all spaces adjacent to lift replacement work and storage area? looking at OP's GSV diagram they could argue they are not adjacent OP we need the council photos -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 19:17
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#6
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
@PMB
I read the sign as Location:---- All bays adjacent to the car park; Reason:----- Lift replacement works and equipment storage. Mick |
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Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 19:21
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 10 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,895 |
Here's the authorisation which, unfortunately, contains a 6 month suspension limit:- http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-4164.pdf All spaces o/s the car park seems definite IMO. Nothing leaping out by way of possible grounds of appeal. Mick @ MMV Mick all spaces o/s car park would be definitive, but all spaces adjacent to lift replacement work and storage area? looking at OP's GSV diagram they could argue they are not adjacent OP we need the council photos Hi, Sorry, can you clarify what you mean by the council photos? Of the evidence or of the area with the current works? |
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Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 21:34
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Here's the authorisation which, unfortunately, contains a 6 month suspension limit:- http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-4164.pdf All spaces o/s the car park seems definite IMO. Nothing leaping out by way of possible grounds of appeal. Mick @ MMV Mick all spaces o/s car park would be definitive, but all spaces adjacent to lift replacement work and storage area? looking at OP's GSV diagram they could argue they are not adjacent OP we need the council photos Hi, Sorry, can you clarify what you mean by the council photos? Of the evidence or of the area with the current works? The councils evidence photos, they should be available online, but if not phone and ask. @ MMV Mick that we are having a discussion shows an ambiguity, this must be decided in the Op's favour -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 21:45
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 10 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,895 |
Here's the authorisation which, unfortunately, contains a 6 month suspension limit:- http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-4164.pdf All spaces o/s the car park seems definite IMO. Nothing leaping out by way of possible grounds of appeal. Mick @ MMV Mick all spaces o/s car park would be definitive, but all spaces adjacent to lift replacement work and storage area? looking at OP's GSV diagram they could argue they are not adjacent OP we need the council photos Hi, Sorry, can you clarify what you mean by the council photos? Of the evidence or of the area with the current works? The councils evidence photos, they should be available online, but if not phone and ask. @ MMV Mick that we are having a discussion shows an ambiguity, this must be decided in the Op's favour Their photos only show the number plate of my car and the ticket on my windscreen, plus the signage I have attached. No other pictures. Still happy to post if you'd like these. |
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Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 21:54
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Here's the authorisation which, unfortunately, contains a 6 month suspension limit:- http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-4164.pdf All spaces o/s the car park seems definite IMO. Nothing leaping out by way of possible grounds of appeal. Mick @ MMV Mick all spaces o/s car park would be definitive, but all spaces adjacent to lift replacement work and storage area? looking at OP's GSV diagram they could argue they are not adjacent OP we need the council photos Hi, Sorry, can you clarify what you mean by the council photos? Of the evidence or of the area with the current works? They are there evidence, so post them. We may ask you yo go back and take some of your own showing signs in relation to your car The councils evidence photos, they should be available online, but if not phone and ask. @ MMV Mick that we are having a discussion shows an ambiguity, this must be decided in the Op's favour Their photos only show the number plate of my car and the ticket on my windscreen, plus the signage I have attached. No other pictures. Still happy to post if you'd like these. -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 23:05
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 10 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,895 |
Here's the authorisation which, unfortunately, contains a 6 month suspension limit:- http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-4164.pdf All spaces o/s the car park seems definite IMO. Nothing leaping out by way of possible grounds of appeal. Mick @ MMV Mick all spaces o/s car park would be definitive, but all spaces adjacent to lift replacement work and storage area? looking at OP's GSV diagram they could argue they are not adjacent OP we need the council photos Hi, Sorry, can you clarify what you mean by the council photos? Of the evidence or of the area with the current works? They are there evidence, so post them. We may ask you yo go back and take some of your own showing signs in relation to your car The councils evidence photos, they should be available online, but if not phone and ask. @ MMV Mick that we are having a discussion shows an ambiguity, this must be decided in the Op's favour Their photos only show the number plate of my car and the ticket on my windscreen, plus the signage I have attached. No other pictures. Still happy to post if you'd like these. All uploaded as requested This post has been edited by Stronz91: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 22:38 |
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Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 23:15
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
Well them photos show your car somewhere and a suspension notice so not exactly helpful to the council.
Can you get a photo or two of the area as it is at the moment, so we can see the works area what ever that is ?? At the moment I am thinking of inadequate signage. What is the storage area and where is the work being carried out and as such, what spaces are adjacent? And do they mean adjacent, ie next to or just close to? Unless the relevant bits are obvious a claim that you simply could not correlate the sign with the works etc should win. |
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Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 00:22
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 10 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,895 |
Well them photos show your car somewhere and a suspension notice so not exactly helpful to the council. Can you get a photo or two of the area as it is at the moment, so we can see the works area what ever that is ?? At the moment I am thinking of inadequate signage. What is the storage area and where is the work being carried out and as such, what spaces are adjacent? And do they mean adjacent, ie next to or just close to? Unless the relevant bits are obvious a claim that you simply could not correlate the sign with the works etc should win. I was thinking this too, it's just a photo of my car and of the sign. Will get photos tomorrow - appreciate the help! |
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Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 18:26
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 10 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,895 |
Wasn't able to get photos today, will do so tomorrow.
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Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 22:44
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 10 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,895 |
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Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 11:32
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,159 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Eats shoots and leaves, or eats, shoots and leaves?
The sign is clear in the council's mind: the location is all bays adjacent to the car park. The reason for this: lift replacement works. But it could be read as the location being all bays adjacent to the car park lift replacement works, which are where???? |
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Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 12:44
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
I gotta admit I read it as adjacent to the lift replacement works and storage area.
And wanted to see how clear these areas are to the average motorist. Even with HCA correcting my thoughts, I would still go with ambiguous signage. |
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Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 12:50
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 10 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,895 |
Eats shoots and leaves, or eats, shoots and leaves? The sign is clear in the council's mind: the location is all bays adjacent to the car park. The reason for this: lift replacement works. But it could be read as the location being all bays adjacent to the car park lift replacement works, which are where???? I couldn't locate the lift myself when I went to take photos. |
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Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 13:17
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,159 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
The lift is irrelevant if it relates to the nature of the works as opposed to their location
OP, you need to sort out matters in your mind and therefore be consistent in your argument: I did not see the sign, in which case considerations as regards its contents are after the fact. So, did you see it? I saw it and misinterpreted its details, thinking that the suspended area was the bays immediately either side of the skip and, as can be seen from the authority's photos (I hope), I was not parked in this area. |
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Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 13:25
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
The lift is irrelevant if it relates to the nature of the works as opposed to their location ........I was looking for the lift as well I saw it and misinterpreted its details, thinking that the suspended area was the bays immediately either side of the skip and, as can be seen from the authority's photos (I hope), I was not parked in this area. |
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