PCN with no photo of signage, PCN photos has no signage plate |
PCN with no photo of signage, PCN photos has no signage plate |
Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:23
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 17 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,944 |
Hi guys,
Been trying to avoid PCNs, done well this year but have been stung now! I recieved a PCN after parking on a single yellow on Sunday morning. It appears restrictions are in force from 8am to 2pm in Tower Hamlets. They observed car for 5 minutes exact. Having read the local enforcement policy, that is correct. They have photos of my car parked on the yellow line, but they have not provided evidence online of the time plate signage which the alleged contravention relates to. Is this something I can use to having PCN cancelled? Thank you! |
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:23
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:38
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Hi guys, Been trying to avoid PCNs, done well this year but have been stung now! I recieved a PCN after parking on a single yellow on Sunday morning. It appears restrictions are in force from 8am to 2pm in Tower Hamlets. They observed car for 5 minutes exact. Having read the local enforcement policy, that is correct. They have photos of my car parked on the yellow line, but they have not provided evidence online of the time plate signage which the alleged contravention relates to. Is this something I can use to having PCN cancelled? Thank you! Is it a CPZ? -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:39
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
You will have been in one of the controlled parking zones for the markets area on Sunday. The signs are at the zone entrances and they will show you them if you challenge. To satisfy yourself, retrace your route on google street view and see where you entered the zone.
Post the PCN as there can be faults on it. https://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/Documents/T...rking_zones.pdf This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:41 |
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:50
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 17 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,944 |
I got code 01.
I was on Legonier Street E2, time plate of CPZ was on other side and further down on my side. I was parked under a yellow template stating "Midnight to 8am 8:30pm to midnight" . No photo evidence of this from CEO. Will see if I can post PCN. |
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:54
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
I got code 01. I was on Legonier Street E2, time plate of CPZ was on other side and further down on my side. I was parked under a yellow template stating "Midnight to 8am 8:30pm to midnight" . Did you pass and fail to see a CPZ sign when entering the CPZ, or did you not pass one at all? If the CPZ sign was missing, it will help you. That's why you were advised to retrace your steps. This post has been edited by peterguk: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:00 -------------------- |
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:56
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Give us a GSV of the spot,
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:58
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
I was parked under a yellow template stating "Midnight to 8am 8:30pm to midnight" . That timeplate is for goods vehicles/coaches. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5255418,-0....3312!8i6656 Tower Hamlets should have pics on its website but it looks like a standard 01 to me. I expect you're not from inner London otherwise you'd know about CPZs? TH sometimes tows for this one around the market area so you may lucky on that score. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5253519,-0....3312!8i6656 This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:00 |
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:19
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Photos are not a legal requirement, therefore no photo of the sign is not grounds for cancellation of the PCN. As said if you were in a CPZ there should be signs at each entrance to the CPZ. If you can prove a sign is missing, then that is grounds for cancellation. Never park on single yellow lines in London without being absolutely sure of the restriction times and days. An army of CEOs patrol 24x7.
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:49
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
If the CPZ sign is still as this you have a strong case
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5262225,-0....3312!8i6656 -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:05
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 17 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,944 |
If the CPZ sign is still as this you have a strong case https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5262225,-0....3312!8i6656 Yes signage is still the same, and this is the only one I would have passed as I drove in. I was parked under a yellow template stating "Midnight to 8am 8:30pm to midnight" . That timeplate is for goods vehicles/coaches. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5255418,-0....3312!8i6656 Tower Hamlets should have pics on its website but it looks like a standard 01 to me. I expect you're not from inner London otherwise you'd know about CPZs? TH sometimes tows for this one around the market area so you may lucky on that score. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5253519,-0....3312!8i6656 I parked directly on where that yellow plate is having turned right in the road. Would this give me grounds to appeal? |
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Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:23
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
If the CPZ sign is still as this you have a strong case https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5262225,-0....3312!8i6656 Yes signage is still the same, and this is the only one I would have passed as I drove in. I was parked under a yellow template stating "Midnight to 8am 8:30pm to midnight" . That timeplate is for goods vehicles/coaches. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5255418,-0....3312!8i6656 Tower Hamlets should have pics on its website but it looks like a standard 01 to me. I expect you're not from inner London otherwise you'd know about CPZs? TH sometimes tows for this one around the market area so you may lucky on that score. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5253519,-0....3312!8i6656 I parked directly on where that yellow plate is having turned right in the road. Would this give me grounds to appeal? Yes get a dated photo to show the sign is still the same -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:26
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,072 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
If you challenge the PCN under the grounds that the contravention did not occur, and
if you challenged the NTO (the authority would reject your argument) under the same grounds, and if you then appealled to the adjudicator wth £130 at risk, and if the adjudicator believed your version - that you entered the CPZ without passing the required signs, whether by virtue of them being missing or in place but orientated so as not to be visible to an attentive motorist - and did not accept the authority’s evidence, then You would probably win your appeal. Lots of ifs. As we’ve still not seen the PCN, we cannot carry out our regular checks on its wording. |
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Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 15:07
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 17 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,944 |
If you challenge the PCN under the grounds that the contravention did not occur, and if you challenged the NTO (the authority would reject your argument) under the same grounds, and if you then appealled to the adjudicator wth £130 at risk, and if the adjudicator believed your version - that you entered the CPZ without passing the required signs, whether by virtue of them being missing or in place but orientated so as not to be visible to an attentive motorist - and did not accept the authority’s evidence, then You would probably win your appeal. Lots of ifs. As we’ve still not seen the PCN, we cannot carry out our regular checks on its wording. I have just figured out how to upload an image and will do so later. In the mean time, I have uploaded 2 pictures of the entry points to the CPZ which were given as Google maps images by Pastmybest. These are more current same details but the condition of it is questionable. https://imgur.com/n1zuzNb https://i.imgur.com/9R4rodB.jpg One of the sign plates is completely turned the wrong way. One signage is blocked by overgrown trees..let me know your thoughts? |
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Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 15:28
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Is that actually where you entered the zone? Down Boundary Street?
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Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 15:29
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,308 Joined: 9 May 2014 Member No.: 70,515 |
edit
This post has been edited by John U.K.: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 15:34 |
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Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 19:49
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 17 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,944 |
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Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 12:13
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 17 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,944 |
Here is the PCN:
https://i.imgur.com/23QdWfP.jpg Here is the entry to CPZ signage https://i.imgur.com/9R4rodB.jpg Thanks! |
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Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 12:21
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 17 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,944 |
Hello all,
So I challenged my PCN and as expected they rejected it. The PCN was issued for contravention code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours. https://i.imgur.com/23QdWfP.jpg My challenge was under the following: 1. CPZ sign post on entry not facing motorists using the road, instead it is facing the building and pedestrians - https://i.imgur.com/9R4rodB.jpg 2. Only sign plate visible on parking was for lorries loading- timeplates further down near bays. 3. No evidence of actual contravention provided in the PCN documents i.e what time plate I was in breach of. They responded to my challenge by stating the following which I'll summarise, and with my comments in red, note that in their response they don't address the CPZ entry sign post facing the wrong way which I provided them evidence for : Letter here: https://imgur.com/oS6CQcg Continued: https://imgur.com/1groxwG 1. They can use 2 ways to enforce this - by time plate or by the CPZ signage on entry point. Sign plate where I was parked was for lorries. CPZ sign post is not facing motorists on CPZ entry 2. I must look for sign post which I would have passed on entry to CPZ. The CPZ sign post is not facing motorist 3. I am bound by the CPZ sign post wether I see them or not. Impossible to see sign post as it is not facing a motorist driving into the CPZ 4. My car was parked dangerously near the turn. Not what the alleged contravention was for, the ticket was issued for code 01 Would appreciate your feedback and advice on how to proceed with this? Thanks in advance! |
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Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 19:42
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 17 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,944 |
No one able to offer advice?
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Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 20:46
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
No one able to offer advice? Its quiet at weekend. I would wait for the NTO then make representations. there is enough wrong with that rejection to cause them some problems on top of the original grounds , which are sound regardless of their response -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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