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PCN with no photo of signage, PCN photos has no signage plate
Jogs83
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:23
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Hi guys,

Been trying to avoid PCNs, done well this year but have been stung now!

I recieved a PCN after parking on a single yellow on Sunday morning. It appears restrictions are in force from 8am to 2pm in Tower Hamlets.

They observed car for 5 minutes exact. Having read the local enforcement policy, that is correct.

They have photos of my car parked on the yellow line, but they have not provided evidence online of the time plate signage which the alleged contravention relates to.

Is this something I can use to having PCN cancelled?

Thank you!

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post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:23
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:38
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QUOTE (Jogs83 @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:23) *
Hi guys,

Been trying to avoid PCNs, done well this year but have been stung now!

I recieved a PCN after parking on a single yellow on Sunday morning. It appears restrictions are in force from 8am to 2pm in Tower Hamlets.

They observed car for 5 minutes exact. Having read the local enforcement policy, that is correct.

They have photos of my car parked on the yellow line, but they have not provided evidence online of the time plate signage which the alleged contravention relates to.

Is this something I can use to having PCN cancelled?

Thank you!


Is it a CPZ?


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stamfordman
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:39
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You will have been in one of the controlled parking zones for the markets area on Sunday. The signs are at the zone entrances and they will show you them if you challenge. To satisfy yourself, retrace your route on google street view and see where you entered the zone.

Post the PCN as there can be faults on it.

https://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/Documents/T...rking_zones.pdf

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:41
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Jogs83
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:50
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I got code 01.

I was on Legonier Street E2, time plate of CPZ was on other side and further down on my side. I was parked under a yellow template stating "Midnight to 8am 8:30pm to midnight" .

No photo evidence of this from CEO.

Will see if I can post PCN.

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peterguk
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:54
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QUOTE (Jogs83 @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:50) *
I got code 01.

I was on Legonier Street E2, time plate of CPZ was on other side and further down on my side. I was parked under a yellow template stating "Midnight to 8am 8:30pm to midnight" .


Did you pass and fail to see a CPZ sign when entering the CPZ, or did you not pass one at all? If the CPZ sign was missing, it will help you. That's why you were advised to retrace your steps.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:00


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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:56
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Give us a GSV of the spot,


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stamfordman
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:58
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QUOTE (Jogs83 @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:50) *
I was parked under a yellow template stating "Midnight to 8am 8:30pm to midnight" .



That timeplate is for goods vehicles/coaches.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5255418,-0....3312!8i6656


Tower Hamlets should have pics on its website but it looks like a standard 01 to me. I expect you're not from inner London otherwise you'd know about CPZs?

TH sometimes tows for this one around the market area so you may lucky on that score.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5253519,-0....3312!8i6656

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:00
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Incandescent
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:19
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Photos are not a legal requirement, therefore no photo of the sign is not grounds for cancellation of the PCN. As said if you were in a CPZ there should be signs at each entrance to the CPZ. If you can prove a sign is missing, then that is grounds for cancellation. Never park on single yellow lines in London without being absolutely sure of the restriction times and days. An army of CEOs patrol 24x7.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:49
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If the CPZ sign is still as this you have a strong case

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5262225,-0....3312!8i6656


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Jogs83
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:05
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 22:49) *
If the CPZ sign is still as this you have a strong case

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5262225,-0....3312!8i6656


Yes signage is still the same, and this is the only one I would have passed as I drove in.

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:58) *
QUOTE (Jogs83 @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:50) *
I was parked under a yellow template stating "Midnight to 8am 8:30pm to midnight" .



That timeplate is for goods vehicles/coaches.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5255418,-0....3312!8i6656


Tower Hamlets should have pics on its website but it looks like a standard 01 to me. I expect you're not from inner London otherwise you'd know about CPZs?

TH sometimes tows for this one around the market area so you may lucky on that score.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5253519,-0....3312!8i6656


I parked directly on where that yellow plate is having turned right in the road. Would this give me grounds to appeal?
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:23
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QUOTE (Jogs83 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 14:05) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 22:49) *
If the CPZ sign is still as this you have a strong case

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5262225,-0....3312!8i6656


Yes signage is still the same, and this is the only one I would have passed as I drove in.

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:58) *
QUOTE (Jogs83 @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:50) *
I was parked under a yellow template stating "Midnight to 8am 8:30pm to midnight" .



That timeplate is for goods vehicles/coaches.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5255418,-0....3312!8i6656


Tower Hamlets should have pics on its website but it looks like a standard 01 to me. I expect you're not from inner London otherwise you'd know about CPZs?

TH sometimes tows for this one around the market area so you may lucky on that score.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5253519,-0....3312!8i6656


I parked directly on where that yellow plate is having turned right in the road. Would this give me grounds to appeal?


Yes get a dated photo to show the sign is still the same


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hcandersen
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:26
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If you challenge the PCN under the grounds that the contravention did not occur, and
if you challenged the NTO (the authority would reject your argument) under the same grounds, and
if you then appealled to the adjudicator wth £130 at risk, and
if the adjudicator believed your version - that you entered the CPZ without passing the required signs, whether by virtue of them being missing or in place but orientated so as not to be visible to an attentive motorist - and did not accept the authority’s evidence, then
You would probably win your appeal.

Lots of ifs.

As we’ve still not seen the PCN, we cannot carry out our regular checks on its wording.

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Jogs83
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 15:07
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 14:26) *
If you challenge the PCN under the grounds that the contravention did not occur, and
if you challenged the NTO (the authority would reject your argument) under the same grounds, and
if you then appealled to the adjudicator wth £130 at risk, and
if the adjudicator believed your version - that you entered the CPZ without passing the required signs, whether by virtue of them being missing or in place but orientated so as not to be visible to an attentive motorist - and did not accept the authority’s evidence, then
You would probably win your appeal.

Lots of ifs.

As we’ve still not seen the PCN, we cannot carry out our regular checks on its wording.


I have just figured out how to upload an image and will do so later. In the mean time, I have uploaded 2 pictures of the entry points to the CPZ which were given as Google maps images by Pastmybest. These are more current same details but the condition of it is questionable.

https://imgur.com/n1zuzNb
https://i.imgur.com/9R4rodB.jpg

One of the sign plates is completely turned the wrong way. One signage is blocked by overgrown trees..let me know your thoughts?
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stamfordman
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 15:28
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Is that actually where you entered the zone? Down Boundary Street?

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John U.K.
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 15:29
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edit

This post has been edited by John U.K.: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 15:34
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Jogs83
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 19:49
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 16:28) *
Is that actually where you entered the zone? Down Boundary Street?


Yes it was. Why?
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Jogs83
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 12:13
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Here is the PCN:

https://i.imgur.com/23QdWfP.jpg

Here is the entry to CPZ signage

https://i.imgur.com/9R4rodB.jpg

Thanks!
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Jogs83
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 12:21
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Hello all,

So I challenged my PCN and as expected they rejected it. The PCN was issued for contravention code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours. https://i.imgur.com/23QdWfP.jpg

My challenge was under the following:

1. CPZ sign post on entry not facing motorists using the road, instead it is facing the building and pedestrians - https://i.imgur.com/9R4rodB.jpg

2. Only sign plate visible on parking was for lorries loading- timeplates further down near bays.

3. No evidence of actual contravention provided in the PCN documents i.e what time plate I was in breach of.

They responded to my challenge by stating the following which I'll summarise, and with my comments in red, note that in their response they don't address the CPZ entry sign post facing the wrong way which I provided them evidence for :

Letter here: https://imgur.com/oS6CQcg
Continued: https://imgur.com/1groxwG

1. They can use 2 ways to enforce this - by time plate or by the CPZ signage on entry point. Sign plate where I was parked was for lorries. CPZ sign post is not facing motorists on CPZ entry

2. I must look for sign post which I would have passed on entry to CPZ. The CPZ sign post is not facing motorist

3. I am bound by the CPZ sign post wether I see them or not. Impossible to see sign post as it is not facing a motorist driving into the CPZ

4. My car was parked dangerously near the turn. Not what the alleged contravention was for, the ticket was issued for code 01

Would appreciate your feedback and advice on how to proceed with this? Thanks in advance!
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Jogs83
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 19:42
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No one able to offer advice?
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 20:46
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QUOTE (Jogs83 @ Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 20:42) *
No one able to offer advice?



Its quiet at weekend. I would wait for the NTO then make representations. there is enough wrong with that rejection to cause them some problems on top of the original grounds , which are sound regardless of their response


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