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Incandescent
Posted on: Yesterday, 21:52


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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 15:07) *
QUOTE
I would dearly like to see where it states in plain English that adjudicators cannot consider mitigating circumstances


In decision after decision from PaTAS/LT.

Perhaps on the LT website? (no time to check at the mo.)

The most I can rememeber seeing from LT Adj's. is the occasional plea/recommendation to an EA to reconsider its decision in the light of mit.circs.

Yes, they always say they cannot consider mitigation, but where is the statute on this ? The statutory grounds are the law, and one of them says "the penalty exceeded the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case". So what circumstances ? There is nothing in law therefore to prevent adjudicating on mitigating circumstances
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1400538 · Replies: 7 · Views: 92

Incandescent
Posted on: Yesterday, 20:10


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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 20:35) *
Lets see all of all documents

+1
The law is quite clear, they have 28 days from receipt of the address of yourself from the hire company to issue a new PCN and cancel the old one. Clearly they have failed in this, and are trying it on. However you must be able to prove that they were provided with your address at the date you mention. The biggest problem in all this decriminalised enforcement is that there are no penalties at all on them for acting unlawfully. It's probably the biggest hole in the whole regime. What is needed is a regulator who can impose swingeing penalties on councils that do this, including taking the decision takers to a criminal court for malfeasance. This would stop all this illegal activity in its tracks. However, I'm not holding my breath !
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1400503 · Replies: 2 · Views: 48

Incandescent
Posted on: Yesterday, 14:06


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Legitimate expectation is the only grounds here for an appeal. However this is usually only decided at adjudication with the full PCN penalty in place, not the discount. Personally, I wouldn't risk it, as you're bang-to-rights basically.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1400383 · Replies: 9 · Views: 112

Incandescent
Posted on: Yesterday, 14:00


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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 12:45) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 23:08) *
Jolly good, and many thanks for posting it up. Please tell us date and the adjudicator, as whilst TPT keep this on their statutory register, it cannot be accessed on-line. I suspect this case will prove useful in the future, especially the bit about PCNs issues being discretionary. Clearly the adjudicator has read the regulations in great detail.



+1
QUOTE
I therefore find that the decision to issue PCN was not a properly exercised discretionary power as allowed for by the Regulations, and therefore procedural impropriety has occurred.


As Incandescent says, this sentence is particularly good.

If followed by other Adjudicators, it develops 'failure to consider' to the benefit of the motorist, adding to 'failure to consider' a ground of 'failure to properly exercise discretionary power as allowed by the Regulations'; which in turn chips away (a little) at the standard 'an Adj. cannot consider mitigating circumstances'.

I would dearly like to see where it states in plain English that adjudicators cannot consider mitigating circumstances. There is the statutory appeal grounds of "the penalty exceeded the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case". Yet nowhere in the statute, regulations, or guidance, is there anything that mentions what those "circumstances" might be. So one has to assume that it is up to adjudicators to decide what Parliament meant when creating this statutory grounds.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1400381 · Replies: 7 · Views: 92

Incandescent
Posted on: Yesterday, 11:41


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In a case like this, I would submit photos of the table, and its weight and dimensions, plus a witness statement from your parents that the table was a gift from them to help furnish your flat. If they persist after this, then I'd take them to adjudication and also ask for costs. The problem with the whole decrim parking regime is that the more thick and stupid and obdurate councils are the more money they make.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1400337 · Replies: 34 · Views: 1,682

Incandescent
Posted on: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 22:08


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Jolly good, and many thanks for posting it up. Please tell us date and the adjudicator, as whilst TPT keep this on their statutory register, it cannot be accessed on-line. I suspect this case will prove useful in the future, especially the bit about PCNs issues being discretionary. Clearly the adjudicator has read the regulations in great detail.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1400232 · Replies: 7 · Views: 92

Incandescent
Posted on: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 20:18


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Video shows you as bang-to-rights.
You proceeded into the box closely behind another vehicle, with no hesitation at all. If you procede into a YBJ you must have an expectation of being able to exit the box without stopping. From your post it would seem you are not even aware of the restriction in these yellow-box-junctions. The restriction is that you must not enter the box and then have to stop in the box due to the presence of stationary vehicles. You did exactly that so got a PCN.

Outside London these can only be enforced by the police, who mostly never do, but in London they are ruthlessly enforced by CCTV and make shedloads of money for Transport for London and the London councils. Look again at the video and notice how the driver of the large black van moves right across across the yellow box into a space on the other side. Clearly he is a Londoner and knows that one doesn't want to get stuck in the box and have to pay £130 !!
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1400195 · Replies: 4 · Views: 91

Incandescent
Posted on: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 20:05


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QUOTE (zanderpanda @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:21) *
I recently had the misfortune to be rerouted across the Mersey Gateway Bridge.
It was not on my original planned route, but due to severe traffic congestion and long journey times on the M6 as advised by satnav, I was rerouted through this unfamiliar part of the country.
I remember seeing the sign saying £2 for my vehicle, amongst other other various prices.
I followed the route and eventually ended up on the M56 and never passed through a toll booth. Confused i continued on my journey and forgot about this.
19 days later I receive the Penalty Charge Notice.
I rang up to query.
Apparently the signs show information on how to pay.
I was expected to remember this information after my journey had finished.
When I asked the phone operator if he remembered every road sign on a long journey he may have taken through unfamiliar territory - he said he would if it was a blue information one. Great for him but I do not possess a photographic memory.
Of course I should not be expected to operate a camera or look around for a pen and paper whilst driving in fast moving traffic, or should I?
Of course this isn't fair, but how is it legal?
Do I have recourse through quoting the CRA as this gentleman did;
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverp...mersey-13978267
The 50,000 motorists who were fined in the first 3 months of operation of this toll bridge would probably suggest things are not crystal clear.
Road signs give instructions, but I always assumed these do not relate to after my journey has been completed, however long that may take. I do not live in the area, and the fact the letter found its way to me is evidence of that.
I can pay for a journey 12 months in advance the website tells me, but have only til midnight the day afterwards. Why the disparity?
Do I have any valid arguments?

Unfortunately, no, you have no valid arguments ! This tolling system is the same as used at the Dartford Crossing and actually managed by the same company. What you can do is to submit reps on a mitigating circumstances basis, pointing out you never intended to travel over the bridge so had not been forewarned about the tolling system. Also point out that this was the first and only time you had been over the new bridge and you would therefore ask for their forbearance by cancelling the PCN and allowing you to pay the actual toll of £2. State that now you are aware of the system you will pay in accordance with their conditions if you cross the bridge in future.

The cases we have seen on this forum re the Dartford Crossing is that the company do exercise their discretion where new users are not aware of the arrangements. Let's face it, they must have hundreds of untraceable foreign vehicles crossing every day and they'll never get the money off them, that's for sure, so ruthlessly enforcing against British registrations would give them a bad name.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1400192 · Replies: 1 · Views: 66

Incandescent
Posted on: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:55


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This is, essentially, an unlawful letter that forms no part of the enforcement procedure. You'll see that whilst they mention bailiff action no mention is made of the option to submit a Witness Statement.

So....don't be intimidated !

In fact, if you get to an adjudication, I would mention this unlawful letter and claim it is a procedural impropriety.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1400185 · Replies: 7 · Views: 163

Incandescent
Posted on: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 08:03


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Well done ! Could you let us see the actual judgement text (with your name blanked out of course), , or did the council not contest the adjudication ?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399972 · Replies: 48 · Views: 3,206

Incandescent
Posted on: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:19


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Photos are not a legal requirement, therefore no photo of the sign is not grounds for cancellation of the PCN. As said if you were in a CPZ there should be signs at each entrance to the CPZ. If you can prove a sign is missing, then that is grounds for cancellation. Never park on single yellow lines in London without being absolutely sure of the restriction times and days. An army of CEOs patrol 24x7.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399924 · Replies: 15 · Views: 246

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 22:54


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If they're trying to whallop you for the £130 it is now a no-brainer to take them all the way to London Tribunals, but I would first reply to that letter pointing out their committment to re-offering the discount if reps are received within the discount period, and attach a copy of the response to your on-line reps. If they then bluff their way, you'll have to wait for the Notice to Owner and appeal that on the same basis. By not maintaining their commitment to maintain he discount they are acting unfairly, and you would win at adjudication on "the penalty exceeded the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case"

TfL have a reputation for cr*p management of the enforcement process, I'm afraid. "We can't get the staff, guv'nor"
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399579 · Replies: 14 · Views: 299

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 21:46


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QUOTE
so I tried downloading the app as I suspected phoning them could be an expensive call.

Yet it's turned out far more expensive !! It all goes wrong from this point onwards and you don't seem to have been very well prepared, I have to say.. Maybe be a bit less parsimonious in future !

First off, post up the PCN so we can see if there are any fatal errors of content in it. Blank out PCN Number and car details. Leave everything else in..
In your favour if you decide to take it all the way to adjudication, is the simple rule that time to pay for a ticket after parking-up is allowed, (many successful appeals on this one). It seems to me that you can make a good case for the PCN to be cancelled, but so can the council make a good case for it not to be. For me, I'd accept I arrived totally unprepared, and must suffer the consequences, (a £65 penalty). Others may disagree so wait a bit but don't risk the discount waiting. However until we see the PCN final advice cannot be given, so get your skates on and post it.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399554 · Replies: 5 · Views: 136

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 21:07


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Extract from: -

QUOTE
The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005

Penalty charge notices
8.—(1) Where an approved local authority have reason to believe that a penalty charge is payable under Part 2 with respect to a vehicle, they may, in accordance with paragraphs (2) and (5) below, serve a notice (“penalty charge notice”) on the person appearing to them to be the owner of the vehicle or on the person appearing to them to be the person liable to pay the charge.

(2) Subject to paragraph (3), a penalty charge notice shall be served before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the detection date.

(3) Where—

(a)within 14 days of the detection date an approved local authority have made a request to the Secretary of State for the supply of relevant particulars; and
(b)those particulars have not been supplied before the date after which the authority would not be entitled to serve a penalty charge notice by virtue of paragraph (2),
the authority shall continue to be entitled to serve a penalty charge notice for a further period of six months beginning with the date mentioned in sub-paragraph (b).

(4) In paragraph (3) “relevant particulars” means particulars relating to the identity of the keeper of the vehicle contained in the register of mechanically propelled vehicles maintained by the Secretary of State under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994.

(5) A penalty charge notice must state—

(a)the registration mark of the vehicle involved in the alleged contravention;
(b)the detection date and the time at which the alleged contravention occurred;
©the reasons why the authority believe that a penalty charge is payable;
(d)the amount of the penalty charge;
(e)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the 28 day period;
(f)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of service of the notice, the penalty charge will be reduced by one half;
(g)that representations may be made, on any of the statutory grounds of appeal, to the authority against the imposition of the penalty charge but that representations made outside the 28 day period may be disregarded;
(h)what are the statutory grounds of appeal;
(i)the postal address to which representations are to be sent;
(j)any electronic mail address or FAX number to which representations may be sent as an alternative to the postal address;
(k)that if at the end of the 28 day period—
(i)no representations have been made; and
(ii)the penalty charge has not been paid,the authority may increase the penalty charge by a half and take steps to enforce payment of the charge as so increased;
(l)the manner in which the penalty charge may be paid;
(m)that if the representations are rejected an appeal may be made on any of the statutory grounds of appeal may be made to an adjudicator in respect of a penalty charge; and
(n)that the recipient may, by notice in writing to the authority, request them—
(i)to make available at an office of theirs specified by him, free of charge and at a time during normal office hours so specified, for viewing by him and by his representative (if any), the record of the contravention produced by the approved device pursuant to which the penalty charge was imposed; or
(ii)to provide him, free of charge, with such still images from that record as, in the authority’s opinion, establish the contravention.


and also: -

QUOTE
Representations in respect of penalty charges
9.—(1) The recipient may make written representations on any of the statutory grounds of appeal to the authority against the imposition of the penalty charge; but the authority may disregard any such representations which are received by them after the end of the 28 day period.

(2) The grounds are—

(a)that the alleged contravention did not occur;
(b)that regulation 6(1) (other proceedings pursued) applies;
©in a case where the penalty charge notice has been served on the recipient on the basis that he was the owner of the vehicle concerned, that the recipient—
(i)never was the owner of the vehicle in question;
(ii)had ceased to be its owner before the detection date; or
(iii)became its owner after the detection date;
(d)in a case where the penalty charge notice has been served on the recipient on the basis that he was the hirer of the vehicle concerned, that he was not liable to pay the penalty charge under regulation 5(2);
(e)that the recipient was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question on the detection date, but on that date—
(i)the circumstances were as mentioned in regulation 5(2) (vehicle subject to hiring agreement);
(ii)the circumstances were as mentioned in regulation 5(3) (vehicle kept by a vehicle trader), and the recipient was either not a vehicle trader or was a vehicle trader but not the vehicle trader keeping the vehicle; or
(iii)the vehicle was in the control of a person who had assumed control of it without the recipient’s consent; and
(f)that the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399536 · Replies: 6 · Views: 161

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 22:11


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Basically, Manchester City Council need to be screwed to the floor on this, and so far we are nearly there. We have never seen such intransigence by a council, and eventually as said by CP8759, they will start getting costs awards against them. Problem is the vast majority of people getting a PCN just cough-up as the system encourages them to do. So MCC's intransigence and (frankly) wickedness, ensures the money continues to roll in and there are no penalties on them. Only when we have a system whereby adjudicator decision are mandatory will there be any improvement. Only decision at Judicial Review are binding, and no ordinary citizen can contemplate this due to the costs risks.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399285 · Replies: 9 · Views: 144

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 22:05


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QUOTE (intex310 @ Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 22:50) *
@Incandescent Thanks for the advice!

He can still pay the discounted rate if his appeal is not successful? Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Best,
Intex310

Look at the PCN. Somewhere on it there should be a bit of text stating that if a representations are received within the 14 day discount period, the discount will be re-offered if the reps are not accepted. It is normal practice with parking PCNs. However his reps need to be received inside the discount period.

Your friend is bang-to-rights on this one, so tell him not to come on heavy with the council, he is looking for them to use their discretion to cancel.

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 22:54) *
They nearly always reoffer the discount after an unsuccessful challenge made in the 14 days.

They do indeed, it is common practice with parking PCNs, but semantics are important here. You are not appealing at this stage, merely submitting informal representations asking for them to use their discretion in view of the circumstances as stated. So tell your friend not to go in heavy, as the CEO did his job correctly.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399281 · Replies: 9 · Views: 191

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 21:18


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It's probably worth taking this one to adjudication, but you'll have to forego the discount. This bus gate has been very controversial with lots of winning appeals, and an adjudicator absolutely slammed their signage earlier this year. Now they have two signs that seem to indicate the restriction only applies to the cycle lane. Even if you lose, it makes them work for the money and your case is good anyway. All you have to do is save a few pounds a week to make up the discount and if you win, treat yourself.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399267 · Replies: 9 · Views: 144

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 21:10


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Of course a passing CEO wouldn't know you lived there and has correctly issued a PCN in accordance with the legislation, (for pavement parking). A letter to the council explaining what had happened might work, but don't hold your breath as this is Hounslow, a council not known for generosity of spirit.

However, I would not risk the discount on this one. Your friend needs to get rapidly up-to-speed on motoring in London. Consider it as a learning opportunity in Life's Rich Pageant !
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399262 · Replies: 9 · Views: 191

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 21:04


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The usual tosh we see so much of. The fact is you were parked in a bay. If they did not want you to park there the hatchings should have covered where you parked. Nowhere is there any definition of what constitutes a bay, nor any hint in their letter. I would take this all the way it it were me, but it's your money.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399258 · Replies: 23 · Views: 480

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 21:00


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QUOTE (CZL1972 @ Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 20:49) *
PCN attached

I am interested in knowing how to word my response letter, any thoughts about what points I should focus on to stand the best possible chance?

I see no PCN
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399256 · Replies: 20 · Views: 535

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 20:59


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QUOTE
As for the other two, is there any possible chance of us getting the money back from the bailiffs?

Almost nil, I'd say. UK civil law can be very harsh, as you have found out. I'd say it's more harsh than the criminal law. People have committed suicide on being told they owe hundreds of pounds they haven't a clue about.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399255 · Replies: 15 · Views: 365

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 20:55


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Second photo is no good, we need to be able to zoom in, as the text is too small, but first is OK and PCN looks OK on that.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399250 · Replies: 2 · Views: 55

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 11:31


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This does sound a bit like a wind-up. Mobile phones are continuously transmitting and receiving on the control channels so the mobile can be tracked around and any text messages or emails sent out. Extensive use of multiplexing both TDM and FDM is used to create over 2000 channels per cell and control, data, and voice channels are all handled using this multiplexing. It is impossible to determine whether a person is actually using a phone just from the signals. My own mobile phone receives emails and messages whilst I'm driving along and I get a chime to tell me. What can, of course, be done, is to detect the signal and then take a photo as the vehicle approaches. The photo would then be the proof or not of use during driving. However, if a photo is taken for every passing vehicle with a phone, then somebody will have to be employed going through all the photos to pick out the illegal use. I can't see the police doing this very often, frankly.
  Forum: News / Press Articles · Post Preview: #1399156 · Replies: 20 · Views: 454

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 11:18


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I would raise a complaint with London Tribunals as the letter is quite plainly wrong. I would include with this a copy of the original Statutory Instrument. Was it written by the original adjudicator ? Clearly no ordinary citizen can afford to go to judicial review and they know this, so exploit it.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399153 · Replies: 89 · Views: 4,140

Incandescent
Posted on: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 22:11


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Are there any advance signs. Surely a street which is essentially a dead-end for a motorist should have some warning, not just the two signs at the start of the bus gate?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1399090 · Replies: 39 · Views: 535

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