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Not giving way......, WOW
dan79
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 09:16
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Firstly wow!!!! They are now pinalising you for not gving way on a very, very busy part of road at a very busy time, if any of you know this part of the road you will know this and understand sometimes you just have to go. Im not even sure the other car is at the passing point.

I guess the pictures show only one on coming vehicle so it looks bad maybe, but you generally have to que all the way down this hill for minimum 5-10minutes some times longer and it can tail back. I guess I wont be going this way anymore as this is a trap. There is a video is there an easy way to post it up at all. I will post everything later today had to rush this bit. Thanks
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post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 09:16
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stamfordman
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 09:21
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Use a site such as Flickr for pics and video. Or youtube for video.

Post the PCN. Is this in South London possibly?
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dan79
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 11:51
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 31 May 2018 - 09:21) *
Use a site such as Flickr for pics and video. Or youtube for video.

Post the PCN. Is this in South London possibly?

ow
Lambeth, Gypsy hill way, how do I take the video off thier site though?
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dan79
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 12:16
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First picture doesent even show my reg clear , I havent even had to delete , is this really proof. Appreciate they have a video









Pictures to follow

Pictures in order off their site, I only had to delete reg number on last one, so pics arent that clear.







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Incandescent
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 12:30
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You need to see the video as this is their sole evidence at adjudication. Looks like the usual Camden money-grubbing, but lets see the video first.
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dan79
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 12:40
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I have the video within the lambeth parking section where the pics are, theres no option to download though, any advice?
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stamfordman
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 13:02
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PM me the details and I'll get the video. Won't be able to do til tomorrow.

we've seen this location a few times and it's badly 'policed' we reckon.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 31 May 2018 - 13:03
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peterguk
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 13:07
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 31 May 2018 - 14:02) *
PM me the details and I'll get the video. Won't be able to do til tomorrow.

we've seen this location a few times and it's badly 'policed' we reckon.

Isn't whether a car gave way or not a simple matter of fact?


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dan79
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 14:33
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Ive managed to do it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe3t38Oq278

Ive found this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RBA5MbOTOU
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StuartBu
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 15:12
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Of course if they reduced the width of the left hand pavement the problem ( and their money grabbing ) would no longer exist . Is there no end to what Councils will get their sticky fingers involved with .
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 17:41
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Loads of wins here in tribunal register, Your is borderline IMO but the PCN is wrong it states 21 days to pay the discount. The regs only allow 14 and this has won


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dan79
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 18:05
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 31 May 2018 - 17:41) *
Loads of wins here in tribunal register, Your is borderline IMO but the PCN is wrong it states 21 days to pay the discount. The regs only allow 14 and this has won


Can I appeal both?
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cp8759
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 20:04
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QUOTE (dan79 @ Thu, 31 May 2018 - 19:05) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 31 May 2018 - 17:41) *
Loads of wins here in tribunal register, Your is borderline IMO but the PCN is wrong it states 21 days to pay the discount. The regs only allow 14 and this has won


Can I appeal both?

Yes.


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Mr Meldrew
post Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 14:08
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There were no oncoming vehicles having priority over the OP’s dark Ford at the time he entered the section of road through the arch of the railway bridge where traffic has priority over vehicles from the opposite direction, that is to say no oncoming vehicles had entered the beginning of the priority section signed to diagram 811A in the sign table under Schedule 11, Part 2 of TSRGD 2016.





Nothing that I know of could legally extend the beginning of the priority section for 20 metres all the way to the oncoming silver car negotiating the speed cushion.



An authority cannot easily be challenged on its understanding of traffic law if the challenge is brushed aside at every stage without appropriate reason being given, including the tribunal stage, which has happened and potentially could happen again.

Posted for consideration.

This post has been edited by Mr Meldrew: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 - 23:54


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I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 5 Jun 2018 - 09:31
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This one was interesting as to the camera operation:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1330783

PMB's 21 days ground should win it.

Mick
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dan79
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 22:11
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How is this...might be a bit bodged, I did write a fair bit using Mr meldrews info. But found mad mick linked to a good letter from a previous poster, does it read ok bit late now....regards

To whom it may concern,

On 22nd May 2018 I received through the post a moving traffic contravention PCN for code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles.

I have three issues with this PCN which are as follows:
The PCN states I have 21 days to pay the discount, which is completely wrong as regulations only allow for 14 days.
• The council have submitted video evidence that has clearly been sped up to deliberately show that my vehicle has driven through the pinch point of the bridge at speed. This is far from the truth, I ask that you review the video and submit this again in real time.
• The contravention did not occur, as the silver car had not even reached the diagram 811 (priority over oncoming vehicles) sign by the time my vehicle had finished it’s manoeuvre through the bridge.


I have slowed this video down using software on my computer to real time so that the inbuilt time counter in the top left corner of the video matches real world seconds.

What this shows is that the oncoming silver car was merely just coming over the hump in the road on the other side of the bridge when I set off to travel underneath the bridge, The car had only just reached the “Priority over oncoming vehicles sign” when I was already through the bridge. As such the alleged contravention did not occur.

The view from your CCTV cameras car is wholly misleading, I have attached a screenshot of exactly where the Silver car would have been at the time I started my maneuver. As you can see this is possibly 20-30 metres from where the diagram 811 (Priority over oncoming vehicles) sign is situated.




The limited section of road over which oncoming vehicles have priority is the section of road between the sign to diagram 811 (Priority over…) and the sign to diagram 615 (Give way…). When my vehicle passed the give way sign, the oncoming car was nowhere near the priority over sign.

The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002, Section 4 Road Markings, 25 states the following:

Road marking shown in diagram 1003: give way

25.—(1) The requirements conveyed to vehicular traffic on roads by the road marking consisting of the transverse lines shown in diagram 1003 shall be as follows.
...
(4) Wherever the transverse lines are placed in advance of a point in the road where the width of the carriageway narrows significantly, then the requirement shall be that no vehicle shall proceed past such one of those lines as is nearer to the point of narrowing in a manner or at a time likely to endanger the driver of or any passenger in a vehicle that is proceeding in the opposite direction to the first-mentioned vehicle, or to cause the driver of such a vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.

As previously mentioned, my car had already cleared the obstruction before the Silver car had reached the priority sign.

As such, I would appreciate if you could cancel this PCN.

Regards,




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cp8759
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 22:17
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The first thing I'd say is The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 were repealed over two years ago. You need to look at the 2016 edition.


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Mr Meldrew
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 10:39
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Dan79, you have the advantage of knowing the council’s response to explicit points raised in the “good” letter you propose to send, which was to completely ignore them (see link below).

In the following draft letter, I would attempt to challenge on a firm point of law, which they could likewise ignore, and then potentially an adjudicator could too (this has happened). But as I say, that’s what I would do even though I appreciate the potential significance for the council if it emerged that they had for many years misunderstood this particular piece of traffic law,

QUOTE
The alleged contravention did not occur:

Please look again at your evidence and respect the plain fact that traffic is given priority with a mandatory sign at the beginning of the narrow section through the arch of the railway bridge, and a message plate that reads “Priority over oncoming vehicles”.

I challenge on a point of law that the vehicle from the opposite direction in the council’s evidence (‘the silver car’) did not have the right of way upon entering Salters Hill until it entered the aforementioned narrow section of road, and this is confirmed by the relevant regulation that I am about to identify for you, namely Item 1 in the Sign Table, under Schedule 11, Part 2 of TSRGD 2016.

If you still believe that the silver car had right of way over my car upon entering Salters Hill (coming over the speed cushion), which was when my car crossed over the give way lines, and that I should have stopped at the give way lines marked out on the road surface, then like me, you should clearly identify the legal basis for your belief, but you should not just ignore the above point of law.

The penalty exceeds the amount applicable:

The PCN states I have 21 days to pay the discount, which is incorrect as regulations only allow for 14 days.

Sign 615 is a scheduled section 36 traffic sign so that is what the PCN was required to allege, i.e. failing to comply with an indication on a sign. London Tribunals’ case 2170323030 fully explains this point.

Based on Lambeth’s Notice of Rejection link. I would include the three images above.


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I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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dan79
post Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 19:55
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Ok thanks Mr Meldrew, I will go with what you have put and see what happens, thanks everyone for all your input.
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dan79
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 18:58
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Why are they asking this now I assume I have to tick -At the time I am supposed to have been in contravention, the restriction did not apply

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