PCN ISSUE TIME LIMIT ON LEASED VEHICLE, CONTRAVENTION 33B USING A ROUTE RESTRICTED TO CERTAIN VEHICLES BUSES |
PCN ISSUE TIME LIMIT ON LEASED VEHICLE, CONTRAVENTION 33B USING A ROUTE RESTRICTED TO CERTAIN VEHICLES BUSES |
Sat, 18 May 2019 - 14:11
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 32 Joined: 15 May 2019 Member No.: 103,887 |
[attachment=64126:20190518..._resized.jpg]Hello all
I have got a Penalty Charge notice from Harrow Council London. date of notice 07/05/19 but date of alleged contravention 26/03/16 over 3 years ago !!! CONTRAVENTION 33B USING A ROUTE RESTRICTED TO CERTAIN VEHICLES BUSES ONLY My question is this is a leased vehicle now returned to the lease company, also 3 years after the contravention took place have i got a defence is so what should i say ? Thanks [attachment=64125:20190518..._resized.jpg] This post has been edited by Sam79: Sat, 18 May 2019 - 14:31 |
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Sat, 18 May 2019 - 14:11
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 09:00
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
the file is too large too upload can you suggest what i can do its on pdf It's 2019, you'll struggle to find a file that is too large for the internet. Try dropbox, google drive or similar. Alternatively, just take a picture and upload it to imgur.com or similar. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 15:04
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 32 Joined: 15 May 2019 Member No.: 103,887 |
sorry meant to upload on here
have put it on wetransfer use below link pls https://we.tl/t-NrZ6HVEQJw |
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 15:22
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Right, so the Charge Certificate was issued on 26 May 2016, and the Order for Recovery was not issued until 20 February 2019, some 2 years and 9 months later. This is a clear-cut case of procedural unfairness, at common law an enforcement authority cannot delay matters for years at a time and then seek to resume enforcement, see Paul Richard David v The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (1970198981, 30 March 1998) here http://bit.ly/2FcqWXP
Have you registered the appeal on the tribunal website? I suspect the council won't contest it. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 15:36
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 32 Joined: 15 May 2019 Member No.: 103,887 |
Right, so the Charge Certificate was issued on 26 May 2016, and the Order for Recovery was not issued until 20 February 2019, some 2 years and 9 months later. This is a clear-cut case of procedural unfairness, at common law an enforcement authority cannot delay matters for years at a time and then seek to resume enforcement, see Paul Richard David v The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (1970198981, 30 March 1998) here http://bit.ly/2FcqWXP Have you registered the appeal on the tribunal website? I suspect the council won't contest it. yeah i registered it with the above advice hearing is on 22nd july 2019 should i include your above comments and the lease companies email and log ? |
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 15:44
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Right, so the Charge Certificate was issued on 26 May 2016, and the Order for Recovery was not issued until 20 February 2019, some 2 years and 9 months later. This is a clear-cut case of procedural unfairness, at common law an enforcement authority cannot delay matters for years at a time and then seek to resume enforcement, see Paul Richard David v The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (1970198981, 30 March 1998) here http://bit.ly/2FcqWXP Have you registered the appeal on the tribunal website? I suspect the council won't contest it. a recent case we won citing that reference on the same subject of delay https://1drv.ms/b/s!AtBHPhdJdppVqlhYT4EJPMdsNL26 -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 20:42
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
should i include your above comments and the lease companies email and log ? Once thing at a time, has the council uploaded its evidence yet? -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 21:49
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 32 Joined: 15 May 2019 Member No.: 103,887 |
no evidence uploaded by council yet
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Sat, 6 Jul 2019 - 09:54
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
What's the time and date of the first email you got from the tribunal, notifying you that the appeal had been registered?
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 6 Jul 2019 - 11:57
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 32 Joined: 15 May 2019 Member No.: 103,887 |
23rd june 2019 23.00hrs
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Sat, 6 Jul 2019 - 19:25
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Excellent, the tribunal rules provide that the council must provide certain evidence (such as a copy of the PCN, your representations and the Notice of Rejection) within 7 days of being notified of the appeal, even assuming it took the tribunal a couple of days to notify the council, it seems likely they've missed the 7 day deadline.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 9 Jul 2019 - 19:00
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 32 Joined: 15 May 2019 Member No.: 103,887 |
Excellent, the tribunal rules provide that the council must provide certain evidence (such as a copy of the PCN, your representations and the Notice of Rejection) within 7 days of being notified of the appeal, even assuming it took the tribunal a couple of days to notify the council, it seems likely they've missed the 7 day deadline. Hello Just checked again but still no evidence uploaded from what i can see What should i do next ? |
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Tue, 9 Jul 2019 - 19:54
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#32
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
If the OP's lease was for 3 years can transfer of liability occur?
I thought liability for PCNs could be transferred where the contravention occurs at a time when the vehicle is the subject of a vehicle hire agreement of less than 6 months. Or have I missed something? Mick |
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Tue, 9 Jul 2019 - 19:54
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Well they've committed a further procedural impropriety by not uploading the evidence in time. Maybe they won't contest, in which case you don't need to do anything. If they contest, they will upload their evidence (though of course it will be late), and the tribunal will give you a deadline to submit your appeal wording.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 01:09
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 32 Joined: 15 May 2019 Member No.: 103,887 |
Well they've committed a further procedural impropriety by not uploading the evidence in time. Maybe they won't contest, in which case you don't need to do anything. If they contest, they will upload their evidence (though of course it will be late), and the tribunal will give you a deadline to submit your appeal wording. The letter from the London Tribunals states my appeal received on 23rd June 2019 case will come into list for decision 22nd july 2019 All evidence should be received by no later than 17th July 2019 i should receive a copy of the enforcement authority's evidence directly from them at least three days before the date the case comes into list. I'm a bit confused here does this still mean the council are late ? If they are late does their action get struck off or is their evidence still allowed? If allowed will i be given extra time to appeal ? |
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Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 10:34
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
All evidence should be received by no later than 17th July 2019 i should receive a copy of the enforcement authority's evidence directly from them at least three days before the date the case comes into list. I'm a bit confused here does this still mean the council are late ? If they are late does their action get struck off or is their evidence still allowed? If allowed will i be given extra time to appeal ? Yes the council are late, the relevant rule is here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/12...gulation/4/made (2) Upon receipt of a copy of a notice of appeal sent under this regulation, the local authority shall within 7 days deliver to the proper officer a copy of— (a) the original representations; (b) a copy of the relevant charge notice (if any); and (с) a copy of the notice served under section 71(6) of, or (as the case may be) paragraph 2(7) of Schedule 6 to, the Act. It doesn't mean the council's case will automatically be struck out, but it's more ammunition to be used against them. The letter from London Tribunals is just a generic template, it does not alter the legal position. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 10:52
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 32 Joined: 15 May 2019 Member No.: 103,887 |
All evidence should be received by no later than 17th July 2019 i should receive a copy of the enforcement authority's evidence directly from them at least three days before the date the case comes into list. I'm a bit confused here does this still mean the council are late ? If they are late does their action get struck off or is their evidence still allowed? If allowed will i be given extra time to appeal ? Yes the council are late, the relevant rule is here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/12...gulation/4/made (2) Upon receipt of a copy of a notice of appeal sent under this regulation, the local authority shall within 7 days deliver to the proper officer a copy of— (a) the original representations; (b) a copy of the relevant charge notice (if any); and (с) a copy of the notice served under section 71(6) of, or (as the case may be) paragraph 2(7) of Schedule 6 to, the Act. It doesn't mean the council's case will automatically be struck out, but it's more ammunition to be used against them. The letter from London Tribunals is just a generic template, it does not alter the legal position. thanks |
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Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 00:43
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 32 Joined: 15 May 2019 Member No.: 103,887 |
THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP
The council have said they are not going to contend the case If anyone needs a discount on car parts especially external parts contact me on sach@svacarparts.co.uk i would like to give anyone helping fellow motorists a discount and those who have helped me on here let me know any parts will be near cost price (hope its ok for me to offer this as a thank you ) |
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Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 08:10
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Very well done ! The council were trying it on, as usual, as most people would have just coughed-up.
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