Phoenix Way (Services) PCN - London Borough of Hounslow. Options

[Lynxy]

Hello All,

I am wondering if the community can assist me in the following PCN that was issued to me by the London Borough of Hounslow (LBH)

Location was Phoenix Way (Services) --> Google Maps

I can see that a few other members have also had similar PCNs raised against them.

Here is my PCN:
Page 1 -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hftk0halljwu8m5/Page1.jpg?dl=0
Page 2 -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3jfnbf8fas0qtr/Page2.jpg?dl=0
Page 3 -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/14asjnfn6cmvjgn/Page3.jpg?dl=0
Page 4 -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2m30whfeabpe9wv/Page4.jpg?dl=0
Page 5 -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bl24ewwal4vtzia/Page%205.jpg?dl=0


I understand I should put in many reasons as I can to appeal.

So a few grounds to appeal my case:

1st Reason
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1411416

The contravention code table at https://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/download/file/fid/20848 says under the notes for code 52 "Code-specific suffixes apply.", the codes are:
g) local buses only, m) motor vehicles, s) solo motorcycles, v) all vehicles except non-mechanically propelled ones being pushed, x) motor vehicles except solo m/cycles.
In this instance the PCN should say 52JM Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles)
Because it doesn't, the PCN does not adequately particularise the alleged wrongdoing, Austin Biesty v London Borough of Brent (case reference 2130412623) etc...

2nd Reason
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...22430&st=20

The area where the restriction applies appears to be "unadopted private" so not a highway, hence it appears the council have no authority to enforce moving traffic legislation.

One thing I noticed on the last page of the PCN was that 'Personal data has been collected by the London Borough of Hounslow and Serco in order to serve this Penalty Charge Notice' - Do Serco & LBH have the rights to request my details from DVLA as they think a contravention has occurred?
As per 2nd Reason above, is there a contravention taking place for them to request it?

Please let me know if there is anything else I can further support my appeal?

Thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by Lynxy: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 20:20

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[Mad Mick V]

Traffic Management Act on the PCN for a moving traffic contravention !!!!!

Mick

[Lynxy]

Traffic Management Act on the PCN for a moving traffic contravention !!!!!

Mick

Hello Mick, Thanks for your reply but I am not sure if if I can use that approach as councils regularly send PCNs for moving traffic, i.e wrong turn, using a bus lane etc. Could you please elaborate on your statement? Have I missed something?

[Mad Mick V]

The PCN states twice that this is for a parking contravention when clearly it is not. So, to me, this invalidates the PCN.

Whilst the TMA 2004 does mention moving traffic contraventions (at Part 4 of Schedule 7) the usual method of enforcement is under the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003.

There are several differences between these Acts such as camera approvals; indeed I suspect that cameras cannot be used under the TMA for this contravention.

The other consideration is whether you have been prejudiced by a flawed PCN since the LLATL 2003 one is significantly different.

Wait for others to comment but I would write to the Council point out the error and contend the PCN is a nullity and should be cancelled.

Does the PCN have any more pages? If so post them up please.

Mick

[Lynxy]

Thanks Mick! I really appreciate your feedback and taking the time to explain.
There was another page but that was on how I can appeal so I didn't post it.

I will upload it regarless when I get home tonight.

[PASTMYBEST]

Is that ALL of the PCN or do you have another page

[cp8759]

This is very simple really:

Dear Sir or Madam,

You have issued a Penalty Charge Notice under the Traffic Management Act 2004 for a moving traffic contravention. Section 72 of the Traffic Management Act 2004 provides that the appropriate national authority (in your case the Secretary of State for Transport) may make regulations allowing the imposition of penalty charges for moving traffic contraventions. To my knowledge, no such regulations have yet been made and it follows that you have no statutory power to issue a Penalty Charge Notice for a moving traffic contravention under this legislation. If you believe I am mistaken, please confirm the name and SI number of the regulations which empower you to issue PCNs for moving traffic contraventions under the Traffic Management Act 2004.

[Lynxy]

Is that ALL of the PCN or do you have another page

Here are all the pages:
Page 1 -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hftk0halljwu8m5/Page1.jpg?dl=0
Page 2 -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3jfnbf8fas0qtr/Page2.jpg?dl=0
Page 3 -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/14asjnfn6cmvjgn/Page3.jpg?dl=0
Page 4 -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2m30whfeabpe9wv/Page4.jpg?dl=0
Page 5 -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bl24ewwal4vtzia/Page%205.jpg?dl=0

This post has been edited by Lynxy: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 20:19

[Lynxy]

This is very simple really:

Dear Sir or Madam,

You have issued a Penalty Charge Notice under the Traffic Management Act 2004 for a moving traffic contravention. Section 72 of the Traffic Management Act 2004 provides that the appropriate national authority (in your case the Secretary of State for Transport) may make regulations allowing the imposition of penalty charges for moving traffic contraventions. To my knowledge, no such regulations have yet been made and it follows that you have no statutory power to issue a Penalty Charge Notice for a moving traffic contravention under this legislation. If you believe I am mistaken, please confirm the name and SI number of the regulations which empower you to issue PCNs for moving traffic contraventions under the Traffic Management Act 2004.

Hi,

Thanks for this. Shall I add reasons 1 and 2 to this also?

[PASTMYBEST]

PCN states you can appeal to PATAS, they disappeared long ago now London tribunals, but not enough at this stage.


CP has the right of it lets find out when s76 was enacted but either state clearly at the top that it is an enquiry or include your 2 reasons for challenge. Forget the data protection angle


I think I would make it an enquiry rather than representations at this stage

[cp8759]

This is very simple really:

Dear Sir or Madam,

You have issued a Penalty Charge Notice under the Traffic Management Act 2004 for a moving traffic contravention. Section 72 of the Traffic Management Act 2004 provides that the appropriate national authority (in your case the Secretary of State for Transport) may make regulations allowing the imposition of penalty charges for moving traffic contraventions. To my knowledge, no such regulations have yet been made and it follows that you have no statutory power to issue a Penalty Charge Notice for a moving traffic contravention under this legislation. If you believe I am mistaken, please confirm the name and SI number of the regulations which empower you to issue PCNs for moving traffic contraventions under the Traffic Management Act 2004.

Hi,

Thanks for this. Shall I add reasons 1 and 2 to this also?

Personally I would make reps using your reasons 1 & 2, + the draft I wrote. I bet they come back and say there's been an administrative error and the PCN is cancelled.

[Rasman32]

Can I draw your attention to a new thread with my PCN and some new changes/info: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=123528

[Lynxy]

Looks like the appeal worked!!
See below:
Page 1 - https://imgur.com/81DFxX8
Page 2 - https://imgur.com/8aWJNyH

They are contesting the example case we gave also...

Apparently, only authorised permit holders on authorised vehicle list is allowed.
I didnt know councils can do this for private companies, unless its for a bus lane or something...

[makara]

Well done - not sure why they reference Norwood Road though.


I thought one entrance to the M4 (heading West) was via Cranford Lane


- and the other side (heading towards Central London) exited on to North Hyde Lane...?

[cp8759]

What a great reply, yes we're cancelling the PCN because the regulations we used to issue it don't exist, but it's substantially compliant with the regulations...

[DastardlyDick]

Well done - not sure why they reference Norwood Road though.


I thought one entrance to the M4 (heading West) was via Cranford Lane


- and the other side (heading towards Central London) exited on to North Hyde Lane...?

If you want to be pedantic, the non-motorway entrance Westbound is on Phoenix Way which is where the OP got his PCN, but that is off Cranford Lane.

Eastbound is indeed off North Hyde Lane.

The reference to Norwood Road baffles me too - it's miles away!