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Chicane accident liability, Expensive six weeks
notmeatloaf
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 17:15
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Just a quick check to make sure I'm not going mad.

I managed to come off my bike here today, nice wrist fracture which will probably involve an operation on Monday to fix. Six weeks of freelance work cancelled.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6413784,-1....3312!8i6656

The whole thing was caught on CCTV so little dispute about what happened.

I was travelling in the direction of the camera e.g had priority. Two vehicles approached the chicane from the other direction. Vehicle one decides to chance it and floor it through so I ease off. Car two hesitates so I commit to go through. At the last moment they decide to try and floor it through too. I slam on the brakes but too late and miss their offside wing by a few inches alongside the last driveway on the left by the wooden fence.

The CCTV shows would 100% of collided with the car if I hadn't braked and come off.

Car two driver says that there was no impact so I fell off my bike independently. Promptly scarpers before the police arrive.

Will post CCTV when I get it. In a situation of either cancelling lots of work for six weeks (expensive) or getting taxis everywhere (expensive, I work on four different sites 30 miles apart plus would be significantly inhibited with a cast anyway). Would welcome thoughts as to whether insurance is likely to be simple or if they will also drag their heels due to no actual impact.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 17:18
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post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 17:15
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bm1957
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 14:22
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I think what the car did was something I have been tempted to do on occasion when behind a large vehicle at a give way like this... if there was a car oncoming, it would have had to slow to a stop/crawl due to the van going through, and he could go through following the van. He didn't consider a bike, gambled, and got it wrong. He gave himself no visibility of oncoming traffic in order to 'ghost' the van, and put himself where he shouldn't have been.

That said, I always approach the similar chicanes near me at a speed I can stop if the opposite traffic suddenly decides to come through. Especially when I'm unsighted due to larger vehicles coming through.

Car completely in the wrong (not saying car 100% at fault for the accident). Bike rider put himself in an unnecessarily dangerous position. (And I still wonder why the bike actually crashed... did you hit something? If the wheel hadn't have skidded, it looks like you could have just cruised through, although a little close for comfort with the car??)

This post has been edited by bm1957: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 14:38
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 14:28
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The question that needs be asked and answered in ascribing 100% fault to the driver is a simple one could he see the bike at 50 metres away and if not why not. after this time the car can do nothing. If he stops and the bike doesn't what then look also to the visibility of the bike in the conditions at the time


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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 14:39
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QUOTE (bm1957 @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 15:22) *
Car completely in the wrong. Bike rider put himself in an unnecessarily dangerous position. (And I still wonder why the bike actually crashed... did you hit something? If the wheel hadn't have skidded, it looks like you could have just cruised through, although a little close for comfort with the car??)

I think unfortunately the one person who does know hasn't told their side of the story. The last thing I remember is the tyre skidding when about 30cm away from the front wing.

In the following CCTV he moves his car out of the way, then moves my bike out of the way, and then starts to drag me out the way until bystanders stop him.

At the scene he said there was no impact at all and that I had fallen off my bike spontaneously.

Once he was told there was CCTV he now says I hit his rear offside wing.

You know what it's like, it's a lot easier to piece things together if everything is left in situ after the impact - hence the police being unhappy.
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KH_
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 15:47
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QUOTE (Mr Meldrew @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 23:40) *
QUOTE (KH_ @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 17:01) *
If you cross a give way line and don't clear the pinch point before another vehicle reaches it, or has to take avoiding action, then the car crossing the give way is at fault.

Are you paraphrasing a legal authority or is this an opinion? Sincerely, a legal authority including clarification of ‘fault’ might help with Slater’s Hill enquiries.


I do wish people wouldn't snip quotes: The whole quote starts with "I was always under the impression" suggesting it's an opinion smile.gif
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nigelbb
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 15:50
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 11:15) *

That webpage is pretty thin on content but does have the bizarre statement that "You must tell DVLA if you’ll be unable to drive for more than 3 months because of a broken limb." I have no idea what basis in law there might be a requirement to inform the DVLA that you are not going to be able to drive for a period of time but why stop at broken limbs? What about when you are on holiday? or in prison? or in hospital?


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DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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big_mac
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 16:02
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it only mentions broken limbs because that is the page about broken limbs.

There are other health conditions listed,
https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving

It is a requirement to inform the DVLA if you have a 'relevant disability' that will last for more than 3 months.
It's a relevant disability if is is 'likely to cause the driving of a vehicle by him ... to be a source of danger to the public'
(RTA 88)
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nigelbb
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 17:26
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QUOTE (big_mac @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 17:02) *
it only mentions broken limbs because that is the page about broken limbs.

There are other health conditions listed,
https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving

It is a requirement to inform the DVLA if you have a 'relevant disability' that will last for more than 3 months.
It's a relevant disability if is is 'likely to cause the driving of a vehicle by him ... to be a source of danger to the public'
(RTA 88)

It's more than merely inform the DVLA as according to that webpage you must actually give up your licence if your doctor tells you to stop driving for 3 months or more.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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Trampilot
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 15:49
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Note to OP and indeed the whole forum. I was advised by the police not to post any video intended to become evidence.

Cheshire police advise the following and I was advised by Surrey police the same:

Please remove the footage from social media. We have worked closely with the Crown Prosecution Service on this process and their advice is that your footage should not be in the public domain/on social media sites as this may affect us being able to take any action if the matter went to court.

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notmeatloaf
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 17:13
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Fair enough. With the number of cameras around (including photos of the scene post incident) perhaps they should be offering that advice when you report an accident where it is suggested the other party may have committed an offence.

Anyway plates and screws time for my wrist. Apparently without I would never regain full wrist function. As a married man that is deeply concerning.
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StuartBu
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 19:25
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 18:13) *
Anyway plates and screws time for my wrist. Apparently without I would never regain full wrist function. As a married man that is deeply concerning.

Dont you have another hand that works...Single guys might have a problem too!!! 😀😀😀
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notmeatloaf
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 20:33
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The documents the solicitor sent said I might need a "helping hand" (their words) at home and even if relatives provide it the costs may be recoverable.

I might call them to see if they can arrange one like with courtesy cars. I'm not sure if you can specify who the hand is attached to or, like with cars, you can't get an upgrade on the model you already have.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 20:34
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Churchmouse
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 23:08
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This discussion of fault is quite interesting, but if the driver was truly uninsured, he's not going to be defending anything in this matter apart from his own criminal case. In such circumstances, won't it be up to the MIB to ascertain the circumstances of the accident? For which they will need the police report, which will not be released until the driver's case has been concluded? In other words, when the driver is uninsured and causes injury, the injured party can make a claim with the MIB for compensation--there won't be anyone involved in that process who has much incentive to justify the uninsured driver's actions. The MIB may be under a duty to minimise payouts, but they probably won't be as creative as the driver would have been. By the way, who is the "no win no fee" lawyer going to go after?

--Churchmouse
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Mat_Shamus
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 05:47
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You can still claim from the third party even if they are uninsured. You just need to do it directly, via claiming through the courts. They're still liable, insured or not.


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Raxiel
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 09:11
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He's not a named driver on the cars own policy, but was it actually confirmed he had no insurance?

It's still possible he had DOC coverage under his own policy, and his evasive behaviour afterwards is just down to him being a c**t who cared more about his no-claims than the well-being of some (in his opinion) "compo seeking Lycra-lout who took a dive under his car"
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ManxRed
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 10:25
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 20:25) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 18:13) *
Anyway plates and screws time for my wrist. Apparently without I would never regain full wrist function. As a married man that is deeply concerning.

Dont you have another hand that works...Single guys might have a problem too!!! 😀😀😀


The other hand would be needed for the computer mouse.









So I believe.


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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 12:00
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The only female insured came from the police desk where I reported it but that could have been a pretty cursory search.

I would imagine something doesn't tally though otherwise they wouldn't have refused point blank to give insurance details. All it does is kick the can down thr road until the police open the file.

Out of interest does an insurance policy not cover a vehicle unless TWOCed? I was always under the impression that the insurance will still pay out for TP risks but can try to recover them afterwards.

As for where the solicitor is getting the money from who knows. They have an insurance policy against me paying costs so they clearly believe they will get the money back from somewhere, as they're arranging private physio which can't be cheap.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 12:56
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Yes if the car is identified and liable they should be paying out and reclaiming if the person isn't insured, if the driver was driving on another policy then they can just claim on that.

I know what his whole attitude suggests to me, and the more he plays silly buggers the more likely it is to end badly for the keeper.


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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 15:16
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We will see. To be honest if there is an issue with licence or insurance I wish he had just held his hands up, it's not like the police won't find out eventually.

I have hired an automatic car to get around. Bit of a punt but in the end I can't use my bike because of the accident, and it is going to work out much cheaper than paying for taxis. I can prove from Strava that I used my pushbike for commuting an almost all short journeys before.

Plus the cheapest car they had (other than a Nissan Qasqui which doesn't count as a proper car) is a Volvo V40. Six weeks of driving round in a Volvo... that's punishment in itself.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 15:30
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 16:16) *
Six weeks of driving round in a Volvo... that's punishment in itself.


Now now, they're not all bad. We've got a turbo charged one that will do 0 to 60 in less than 7 secs and you can get a fridge in the back.
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baggins1234
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 17:32
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 22:59) *
Does anyone know if you are allowed to drive an automatic car with a wrist cast?

The hospital literature says blanket no for any casts, so I suspect the answer is no because against medical advice.



QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 16:16) *
I have hired an automatic car to get around




Latest CPS Guidelines for offences of dangerous driving...

driving when knowingly suffering from a medical or physical condition that significantly and dangerously impairs the offender's driving skills such as having an arm or leg in plaster, or impaired eyesight. It can include the failure to take prescribed medication;
 
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