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3 point turn ticket.
3pointturner
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 14:53
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Hello,

I received my first parking ticket last month for being stopped on yellow lines. When in fact I had pulled in to allow the car behind me to pass as to perform a 3 turn safely. Just my luck that the car behind me had a giant camera on the top of it so I then received a ticket.

I appealed it to he council before I knew this forum existed and got rejected. I'm now left with the option of £35 or the traffic tribunal with a £70 fee if rejected again so I'm after some advice as if I have any chance of winning the appeal.

I explained in my original appeal that I was doing it to simply perform a 3 point turn SAFELY, and that I'm in the car waiting to do so but to no avail.

I will attach a link with the documents and the video they provided. I can't tell from the video of I'm even on the yellow lines or if I'm completely stopped.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

https://imgur.com/gallery/cK4T3Pq
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post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 14:53
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stamfordman
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 15:00
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Can't read your docs easily but presume this is Wales?

I can't see how they can issue a PCN from what looks like a drive by...

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3pointturner
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 15:10
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Yeah, swansea to be specific.

First time I've seen the car before. If I'd saw the signage and camera on top before it overtook me I would have kept driving.
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Neil B
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 15:13
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We need clear pics of ALL of every page of the PCN


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 17:32
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 16:13) *
We need clear pics of ALL of every page of the PCN



and the video, you are entitled to this


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stamfordman
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 17:53
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 18:32) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 16:13) *
We need clear pics of ALL of every page of the PCN



and the video, you are entitled to this



the video is on the link in #1 PMB - as I said it looks like they've driven by and looked at the reg later.

The key is that the OP was engaged in a driving manoeuvre and this is not a no stopping contravention.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 18:10
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What I see is the camera car come around a bend and pick up a car already stopped so the argument re waiting for traffic is a tad weak, on the other hand indicator and brake lights are on

post all of the PCN lets check that out


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3pointturner
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 19:27
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Sorry, the missus had moved the original, so i've made a new link with pre and post appeal PCN.

https://imgur.com/gallery/vUIEU1B

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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 19:58
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They claim the date of service of the PCN is the 19/04/2019. It can't be that was Good Friday a bank holiday. Date of service is two working days after the date of posting so could not be until the Tuesday the 23rd So they have truncated the time in which you are allowed to pay the discount, the time you may appeal and the time you may pay the full penalty by 4 days A procedural impropriety and grounds for cancelation on its own. they then compound this by telling you the date of service of the NOR is served on the 18th of May a Saturday when the service cannot be until the Monday the 20th so again shortening by two days


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3pointturner
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 20:21
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Thanks very much for taking the time to look at this. I will email them with what you've said and see what they say.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 20:28
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QUOTE (3pointturner @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 21:21) *
Thanks very much for taking the time to look at this. I will email them with what you've said and see what they say.


No its to late you have now to go to adjudication one of us will need to draft an appeal for you. I am busy until at least this time next week but if you get no further response bump the thread to remind me


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3pointturner
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 20:38
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Okay I'll do that. Thanks again!
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 19 May 2019 - 20:56
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They also have the NOR with a service date of Saturday 18/05.

Mick
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Mr Meldrew
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 09:44
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It is encouraging that there may be grounds for cancellation on paperwork alone, but I want to return to the nature of enforcement as raised by stamfordman.

It seems to me that zero observation time (or as good as) from a moving vehicle is not sufficient to establish that the vehicle was parked where prohibited as alleged, and not just pulled over to the side of the road in preparation for a three point turn manoeuvre as claimed, which is not subject to the prohibition. It is true that the OP was stationary as the camera car came around the corner, but that is consistent with the OP’s account, and besides considering it was dark, I think it entirely plausible that s/he observed the approaching car—headlights and all, and waited, as one should. I note that the footage confirms the OP’s driving lights are also lit as if about to do something next.

The preponderance of evidence proving the contravention is what exactly? I believe the law requires that the benefit of doubt should be given to the OP.

So, where in the rejection notice has the account the OP gave for their actions been addressed, as apposed to a mere claim that it has been addressed, and what reason has the OP been given as to why that account was rejected? Perhaps the council are saving that for the evidence pack ohmy.gif . Either way, I think if 3pointturner can confirm or post the content of his/her reps then a claim of failure to consider might be on the cards too.

There appears so much wrong with what seems to be over-zealous traffic enforcement in this case, even to a moral level of reasoning in my view, that I fully support the action the OP is considering taking.


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I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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stamfordman
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 10:19
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I agree Mr M - the appeal should include the point that OP was engaged in a driving manoeuvre that was not observed and this is not a no stopping contravention. The shortcomings on the docs should cement this - as we know it sometimes only one aspect that an adjudicator accepts out of a list.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 10:24
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 11:19) *
I agree Mr M - the appeal should include the point that OP was engaged in a driving manoeuvre that was not observed and this is not a no stopping contravention. The shortcomings on the docs should cement this - as we know it sometimes only one aspect that an adjudicator accepts out of a list.


The biggest thing against the OPs account is the left hand indicator. If I was making a U turn/3 point turn I would use my right hand indicator and so I think would most


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stamfordman
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 10:27
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 11:24) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 11:19) *
I agree Mr M - the appeal should include the point that OP was engaged in a driving manoeuvre that was not observed and this is not a no stopping contravention. The shortcomings on the docs should cement this - as we know it sometimes only one aspect that an adjudicator accepts out of a list.


The biggest thing against the OPs account is the left hand indicator. If I was making a U turn/3 point turn I would use my right hand indicator and so I think would most



Yes but if you were pulling in before making a safe turn you'd use the left indicator. If it were me I'd keep it on til the traffic behind had passed.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 10:41
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I don't object to making the argument. just pointing out potential pitfalls


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3pointturner
post Sun, 26 May 2019 - 14:48
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Thank you all for taking the time to look at this for me. How should I best go about the appeal? Attached is my original response to the ticket.
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cp8759
post Sun, 26 May 2019 - 15:46
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I would fight this all the way to be honest.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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