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Phone Scams! Beware.
firefly
post Fri, 7 Oct 2005 - 15:26
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Please read the information listed below and fwd, print off just let those you know about the latest Telephone scam!



The information is genuine as has been pushed out by NCIS (National Criminal Intelligence Service) dated Tuesday 27, September 2005


Telephone Scams


The following telephone related scams are currently affecting the UK telephone networks.



Scam 1 This scam involves a recorded message congratulating you on winning an all-expenses trip to an exotic location. You are then asked to press “9” to hear details. If you do so, you are connected to a premium rate line that cost £20 per minute. Even if you hang up immediately after pressing “9”, the phone will remain connected to the line for a minimum of five minutes. In the final part of the call, you are asked to key in your postcode and house number- which in any event should never be disclosed to an unidentified caller or third party. After a further two minutes, you will receive a message informing you that you are not one of the lucky winners. The bill by now will be more than £100.



Since the calls are originating from outside the UK, BT and other phone companies are relatively powerless to act. The only safe solution is to hang up before the message prompts you to dial “9”



Scam 2 The other scam is operating on mobile phones. A “missed call” appears. The number is 0709 020 3840.



(The last four numbers may vary, but the first four remain the same). If you call this number back, you will be charged at £50 per minute.





Do not call back any number beginning 709.


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post Fri, 7 Oct 2005 - 15:26
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BikerPaul
post Thu, 13 Oct 2005 - 11:42
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QUOTE (Rallyman72)
Actually Orange are owned by France Telecom - nothing to do with Vodafone!

Prior to September 2003 it was a separately quoted company with both FTSE (London) and CACC (Paris) quotes.


Orange were set up by Hutchison Telecom, floated, then later sold to Mannesman, who were bought by Vodafone. Vodafone had to divest Orange as part of the deal, which they did by selling to France Telecom.

Three are owned by Hutchison Telecom.


--------------------
Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to burn the gatso's I chop down

Fraudulent appeals companies found - 7.
Fraudulent appeals companies closed down - 6.
Number of directors caught wrongfully trading - 8.
Number of Shadow Directors charged and convicted - 1.

Don't forget that there are a lot of armchair lawyers everywhere on the internet. People who will actually come to court with you are few and far between.

I am one of those people
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Rallyman72
post Thu, 13 Oct 2005 - 12:44
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Close but that's not strictly right.

The following is from the company reports:

QUOTE
3.1.3.1.2 Creation of Orange plc
In 1991, Microtel Communications Ltd, or Microtel, Orange plc’s predecessor company, which had been formed by a consortium led and ultimately wholly owned by British Aerospace, was awarded a licence to operate a GSM1800 digital network in the United Kingdom. In July 1991, a subsidiary of Hutchison Whampoa purchased Microtel from British Aerospace in exchange for 30% of that subsidiary’s shares. Microtel was renamed Orange Personal Communications Services Ltd in 1994, prior to the launch of its Orange network in the United Kingdom on 28 April 1994.
As a result of a corporate reorganisation, Orange plc became the holding company for the Orange group. Orange plc was incorporated on 5 October 1995. In connection with the £ 730 million initial public offering of Orange plc, shares in Orange plc were admitted for listing and trading on the London Stock Exchange, and ADSs, each representing five shares, were admitted for trading on the Nasdaq National Market on 2 April 1996. British Aerospace disposed of its remaining interest in Orange plc in March 1998.

3.1.3.1.3 Acquisition of Orange plc by Mannesmann and Vodafone
In October 1999, Mannesmann AG, or Mannesmann, announced its offer to acquire all the issued share capital of Orange plc for consideration of 0.0965 Mannesmann shares and £ 6.40 cash per Orange plc share. The acquisition was completed in February 2000 when Mannesmann acquired the entire share capital of Orange plc. Orange plc was delisted from the London Stock Exchange on 10 February 2000 and the ADSs of Orange plc were delisted from the Nasdaq National Market on 14 February 2000. On 23 December 1999, prior to the completion of Mannesmann’s offer for Orange plc, Vodafone made a formal offer to acquire the entire issued share capital of Mannesmann. On 4 February 2000, Vodafone announced that it had reached an agreement with the management board of Mannesmann on the terms of an acquisition that valued Mannesmann’s share capital at 181.4 billion euros.
Under the EU Merger Regulation, pending the outcome of the European Commission’s investigation of Vodafone’s acquisition of Mannesmann, Mannesmann was prevented from exercising its voting rights in Orange plc. On 12 April 2000, the European Commission approved the acquisition of Mannesmann by Vodafone subject to commitments by Vodafone, contained in an undertaking given by Vodafone to the European Commission, to divest Orange plc and all of its subsidiaries. Vodafone appointed a trustee to exercise the voting rights of Vodafone in matters affecting Orange plc and to ensure that such rights were exercised on an independent, arm’s length basis. Vodafone also agreed not to dispose of any of Orange plc’s licences, customers, databases, key personnel, intellectual property or other assets necessary to enable Orange plc to operate as a going concern until divestment.
During the time that Mannesmann and Vodafone owned Orange plc, neither company appointed any directors to Orange plc’s board, was involved in the management of Orange plc, or had access to Orange plc’s confidential information.


From this you will see that Orange was originally set up as Microtel Communications Ltd by British Aerospace. In July 1991 Hutchison Whampoa bought Microtel from BAE and renamed the company Orange. It was then floated.

Orange were then taken over by Mannesmann, not sold to them, Vodafone then bought Mannesmann as you say. The EU Commission directed Vodafone to dispose of Orange who were then bought by France Telecom.

3 was set up by Hutchison 3G which was a tripartite consortium of NTT, KPN Mobile N.V.(who used to be the Dutch part of Orange) and Hutchison Whampoa.

So, at the end of the day both companies (Orange and 3) have been inbred in that they have both had a hand in the formation of each other!

The 3 network is run by Nokia. Preferred handset suppliers have been Motorola, LG and NEC. Nationwide coverage has been achieved by using the mmO2 network and a roaming agreement.
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BikerPaul
post Thu, 13 Oct 2005 - 13:21
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QUOTE (Rallyman72)
Close but that's not strictly right.

<snip>

3 was set up by Hutchison 3G which was a tripartite consortium of NTT, KPN Mobile N.V.(who used to be the Dutch part of Orange) and Hutchison Whampoa.

So, at the end of the day both companies (Orange and 3) have been inbred in that they have both had a hand in the formation of each other!

The 3 network is run by Nokia. Preferred handset suppliers have been Motorola, LG and NEC. Nationwide coverage has been achieved by using the mmO2 network and a roaming agreement.


It's still a network with the same heritage as orange. And it works, unlike T Mobile and all their roaming MVNOs


--------------------
Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to burn the gatso's I chop down

Fraudulent appeals companies found - 7.
Fraudulent appeals companies closed down - 6.
Number of directors caught wrongfully trading - 8.
Number of Shadow Directors charged and convicted - 1.

Don't forget that there are a lot of armchair lawyers everywhere on the internet. People who will actually come to court with you are few and far between.

I am one of those people
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flyin flea
post Thu, 13 Oct 2005 - 13:28
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icon_eek.gif <large woman on Springer voice>Whaaadeverrrrr</large woman>


I'll not be movin to 3 either. I work in some obscure venues around the country. Where there is no reception you're dumped on to T-Mobile.
A colleague of mine was on 3. Had numerous handsets, each of which had software problems. Customer services is in India.... if you have a problem which is not listed on their computer screen the line suddenly seems to have a bad connection and be dropped. If your calls not dropped you'll spend 40 infuriating minutes trying to explain what the problem is, only to be told to call another number.... which is never answered!  Everytime I saw him at work he would have a new tale of woe about 3!
It took my colleague 3 months to succesfully move from 3! He's now on Orange 3G..... and is amazed by how competant, helpful the staff are, and that the phone actually does what it says!



besides, biker.... even if I ported my number to another network Id still get text spam and still receive charges for somethin Ive never had the pleasure of!!! .....coz Id still have the same number.  .....and Im not changin my number as Im self-employed!
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Insider
post Thu, 13 Oct 2005 - 14:06
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Insider pops in with some medication for Bikerpaul and Rallyman

icon_axe.gif   Problems Gents?

Here have one of these

icon_pidu.gif Sorted


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Rallyman72
post Thu, 13 Oct 2005 - 14:18
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S'funny that - I wassss thinking the ssaaaamme - Hic! I prefer these icon_jook.gif
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BikerPaul
post Thu, 13 Oct 2005 - 14:24
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QUOTE (flyin flea)
icon_eek.gif <large woman on Springer voice>Whaaadeverrrrr</large woman>


I'll not be movin to 3 either. I work in some obscure venues around the country. Where there is no reception you're dumped on to T-Mobile.


you mean O2...

I've been with three for over 18 months, and I'm very happy with the service.


--------------------
Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to burn the gatso's I chop down

Fraudulent appeals companies found - 7.
Fraudulent appeals companies closed down - 6.
Number of directors caught wrongfully trading - 8.
Number of Shadow Directors charged and convicted - 1.

Don't forget that there are a lot of armchair lawyers everywhere on the internet. People who will actually come to court with you are few and far between.

I am one of those people
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BikerPaul
post Thu, 13 Oct 2005 - 14:25
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QUOTE (Rallyman72)
S'funny that - I wassss thinking the ssaaaamme - Hic! I prefer these icon_jook.gif


We may have our differences, but I'd buy you one... :-)


--------------------
Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to burn the gatso's I chop down

Fraudulent appeals companies found - 7.
Fraudulent appeals companies closed down - 6.
Number of directors caught wrongfully trading - 8.
Number of Shadow Directors charged and convicted - 1.

Don't forget that there are a lot of armchair lawyers everywhere on the internet. People who will actually come to court with you are few and far between.

I am one of those people
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Rallyman72
post Thu, 13 Oct 2005 - 14:43
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Pax

I'd accept - but only if I wasn't driving! laugh.gif
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g_attrill
post Thu, 13 Oct 2005 - 15:34
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I've got an Iridium 9500 satellite phone in the drawer here, got it on ebay as "untested" for about $50 so it probably doesn't work. Never put in a battery I just got it because it looks cool.

Gareth


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BikerPaul
post Thu, 13 Oct 2005 - 15:58
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QUOTE (Rallyman72)
Pax

I'd accept - but only if I wasn't driving! laugh.gif


[family="simpson" person="homer"]

Mmmm... Beeeeer  :drinkers:

[/family]


--------------------
Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to burn the gatso's I chop down

Fraudulent appeals companies found - 7.
Fraudulent appeals companies closed down - 6.
Number of directors caught wrongfully trading - 8.
Number of Shadow Directors charged and convicted - 1.

Don't forget that there are a lot of armchair lawyers everywhere on the internet. People who will actually come to court with you are few and far between.

I am one of those people
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pajaholic
post Sun, 16 Oct 2005 - 18:02
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QUOTE (Insider)
QUOTE
After nearly a month of emails between myself and BT, I eventually got them to come clean


So as confirmation, can we please see the emails  icon_idea.gif I'm sure ICSTIS would love to revise their guidance.

Sorry for the late reply. However, I haven't visited the board for a few days. If you insist, I'll trawl through my entire inbox and sent mail folders. However, after much wheedling on the part of BT I sent the following:
QUOTE
Thanks for your patience and your latest reply. However, I note that you still have not answered my question directly. In particular, you have not addressed whether it is possible by pressing one or more keys while engaged in an incoming call to incur charges in excess of the greater of the maximum UK PRS rate or the cost of a non-PRS call to the same (international) number.

AFAICT from your collective responses, the scam that I originally described is technically feasible. That is, it is possible on answering the phone at a normal residential BT line, to hear a recorded announcement that coerces you to press one or more keys. If you press the requested keys you can, theoretically, be connected to a foreign premium-rate service that may charge in excess of the £1.50 UK limit and you would be liable for the charges so incurred.
To which BT replied:
QUOTE
Thank you for your e-mail.

When you receive a recorded message advising you that you have won a prize it does advise you to claim your prize press 9 which then transfers you over to a Premium Rate number. If you simply ignore the message by hanging up or by deleting, then you are not charged.

These calls are quite often coming from overseas which means that the governing bodies in the UK have no powers over their pricing strategy.


Now, if the scam were not possible, I suspect that BT would have said NO somewhat categorically. However, they didn't say NO, they said that "These calls are often coming from overseas, and that you could be transferred to a PRS over which the governing bodies in the UK have no powers. Don't forget that this exchange of messages took place over some weeks and that it took four or five exchanges to tighten my questions enough to extract the above response.

Make of it what you will - however, I'll agree with the BT bod and suggest you hang up if you ever get one of these calls!
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g_attrill
post Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 02:01
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I am certain that there are only a few ways of getting charges on your bill:

- Operator assisted reverse charge
- Network automated reverse charge (eg. 0800 REVERSE)
- Number dialed from subscriber's equipment

It is *impossible* for an incoming call to cause the subscriber to incur any charges, it is just not catered for in the way the telephone system works.

PM anton if you need clarification, both he and his wife work for BT.

edit: I do know how this misconception originated though, there was a hoax email going around a few years back saying that if somebody called you and asked you to press #9 (or something) then hang up because you will get a £100 bill. This had a grain of truth in that certain older PBX systems used to open an outgoing line when the 9 key was pressed, and people used to call PBX systems and get the person to press 9 and then hang up so they could make long distance/international calls on their bill.  The telemarketers are only using it to ensure that they aren't calling an answering machine, a bit silly really.

Gareth


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Hobbes
post Thu, 3 Nov 2005 - 00:54
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QUOTE (flyin flea)
icon_eek.gif <large woman on Springer voice>Whaaadeverrrrr</large woman>


I'll not be movin to 3 either. I work in some obscure venues around the country. Where there is no reception you're dumped on to T-Mobile.
A colleague of mine was on 3. Had numerous handsets, each of which had software problems. Customer services is in India


Wasn't an LG phone was it?

The newer Nokias 6630's etc. seem to be very stable on 3. Had mine (and wifes), for a good while now. No network probs (YET!).
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