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Mersey Gateway Bridge toll PCN, Split from hijacked thread
tomtomtom
post Tue, 9 Jan 2018 - 22:19
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My wife's friend has just got one. She doesn't live in the area and went to this place once before when there was no new bridge. She has drafted this appeal. Can you let me know what you think please.

I had no idea I was crossing a toll bridge until it was too late to go anywhere else but reverse. I was trying to find my way to Runcorn via the old bridge, which I didn't know was closed, and I was therefore lost. Approaching a toll, I would expect to see booths. Only since receiving your notice have I researched on the internet, and have seen what signage you have, which is completely inadequate. I have also discovered hundreds of comments and complaints to the same effect. I further believe that your signage is downright dangerous, as for anyone to see them and digest the information, they would have to be ignoring the road, and the very confusing new direction signs. I thus consider this charging system to be entirely unfair.
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post Tue, 9 Jan 2018 - 22:19
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Incandescent
post Tue, 9 Jan 2018 - 22:40
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All you can do is submit your reps and see what they say.The good news is the same company operate the Dartford toll bridge/tunnel, and have shown forbearance in the past. What makes this bridge tolling such a bad installation is there was not tolling before so people tend not to realise it is tolled despite the signs, whereas Dartford was always tolled, so people expected to pay when the toll booths were abolished. . And I agree they are not fully comprehensible when you start crossing. I doubt we have seen the last of this bridge as the huge number of PCNs issued shows something is seriously wrong. I suspect there is a large head of political steam building up !
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tomtomtom
post Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 09:14
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Thank you, Incandescent.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 14:50
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Please post ALL pages of the PCN lets at least check it over
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tomtomtom
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:11
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Sorry, I've had to go and get this from her and i was away.

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Neil B
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:15
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Hang on; isn't this hijacking someone else's thread.

Please delete your posts and images and start your own topic.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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tomtomtom
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:19
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Oh, sorry Neil. Still new to all this. If a team member can do this for me please do so, thanks.
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Neil B
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:46
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Well I can find fault with the PCN but I'm loathe to go that way.

If, as said, they are as friendly and helpful as for Dart Charge you are probably better making
friendly, apologetic approaches.

Any sign of them on twitter ore facebook, as they are for DC.

Watch deadlines though.

-

parking this here, if anyone needs it.
http://www.merseygateway.co.uk/wp-content/...-Order-2017.pdf


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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tomtomtom
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:10
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I've now spoken to her friend face to face and there's a little more to it. Apparently there was a sign that said that this was a toll bridge but, just as she alluded to ("I had no idea I was crossing a toll bridge until it was too late to go anywhere else but reverse") it was just as you were turning onto the bridge. she says there was signage when going over the bridge but she couldn't digest it properly because she was in traffic at 60mph. She was shocked that there was no toll booth, so she immediately drove back the way she came and went back over it again because she thought she must have missed paying at the booth! I doubt very much whether I or anyone else on here would have done that, but I guess that just shows how badly it is signed. Should she go with the original letter - but will probably have to reword a little - or else pull them up on the PCN? Am I allowed to ask what the fault is and why it isn't a good idea to pull them up on it, Neil? Thanks in advance. And thank you for moving this whoever did it.
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peterguk
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:33
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QUOTE (tomtomtom @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:10) *
that just shows how badly it is signed


So there are no signs at all on approach, warning of a toll section? If not then it must be an easy win, however i think it more likely your friend missed them.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:35


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Incandescent
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 11:41
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:33) *
QUOTE (tomtomtom @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:10) *
that just shows how badly it is signed


So there are no signs at all on approach, warning of a toll section? If not then it must be an easy win, however i think it more likely your friend missed them.

There are signs, and as someone who has driven over the bridge, I would say they are not ideally placed, and for those who had driven that way when there was no toll, it would be puzzling, and worse still, no toll booths to pay. Not only this, but one cannot write down phone numbers or web addresses on the signs whilst driving. Frankly the whole thing is a Dog's Breakfast. Yes the Dartford crossings are all boothless tolling, but most people expect to pay because this crossing has always been tolled; the old Mersey bridge never was.

It is almost as if the powers that be want thousands of PCNs to be issued so the cash flow is greater, (a bit like London councils with parking matters !!)
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Neil B
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 12:28
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QUOTE (tomtomtom @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:10) *
and why it isn't a good idea to pull them up on it, Neil?

because, as stated, avenues may exist to resolve this amicably and beneficially, with little effort.
We have seen HE be very reasonable re Dart Crossing.


QUOTE (tomtomtom @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:10) *
Am I allowed to ask what the fault is and why it isn't a good idea to pull them up on it,

There are a mixture of correct and incorrect periods for action described.
To test the effect of this you can try telling me the last date on which she may pay at discount, i.e. £22.
The PCN is deemed, in law, to have been 'served' two working days after posting.

The further 'why not' is that, although such errors are cast in stone from previous cases, TPT adjudicators
seem more 'awkward' about them than in London.

As much as I love to fight unjust PCNs I'm a realist when you consider the work to save just £22.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 12:29


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 16:15
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 12:28) *
QUOTE (tomtomtom @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:10) *
and why it isn't a good idea to pull them up on it, Neil?

because, as stated, avenues may exist to resolve this amicably and beneficially, with little effort.
We have seen HE be very reasonable re Dart Crossing.


QUOTE (tomtomtom @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:10) *
Am I allowed to ask what the fault is and why it isn't a good idea to pull them up on it,

There are a mixture of correct and incorrect periods for action described.
To test the effect of this you can try telling me the last date on which she may pay at discount, i.e. £22.
The PCN is deemed, in law, to have been 'served' two working days after posting.

The further 'why not' is that, although such errors are cast in stone from previous cases, TPT adjudicators
seem more 'awkward' about them than in London.

As much as I love to fight unjust PCNs I'm a realist when you consider the work to save just £22.


Its a council rather than a central government agency so i doubt they will be as understanding. but your point re the amount of work for £20 is valid. Got to try sorry first
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tomtomtom
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 21:51
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OK. thank you!
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tomtomtom
post Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 08:19
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"As much as I love to fight unjust PCNs I'm a realist when you consider the work to save just £22."
It would be £66 given that she has three letters (because she drove over, then went back to the start and returned since she was looking for a toll booth).

She wants to know...

(a) that if she is to reply in the first instance without actually challenging the PCN, should she fill in the form (and if so which box does she check?) or just send copies of the charges and write a letter?

(b) She also wants to know would it be advisable to include the two pounds charge since she did use the bridge (although would be aggrieved to as she insists she would have taken a more southerly route from Manchester had she known about the charge - not least because she is not on the Internet).

© Should she include six pounds since she went over it three times (although she is even more loathed to pay more than two because she only went back because the signs weren't clear)?

Thanks in advance.
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