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Newlyn Notice of enforcement - WAVERLEY
YellowMETP
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:53
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Hi,

I am hoping someone can offer me advice.

I received a 'Notice of enforcement' letter from a company called Newlyn. The letter was sent to my correct address, but has the wrong last name. I changed it nearly two years ago after divorce.

The letter claims that I owe £83 to Waverley Borough Council and includes a PCN number

It then states that the 'sum outstanding' is: £83 + £75 compliance stage fee = £158

The enforcement details state:

Warrant of control dated --/10/2017 for Non payment of PCN
Contravention Details: Parked after the expiry of paid for time on --/03/2016
It then states my car reg

I have no recollection of this alleged contravention at all, and when I log into the council website and enter the PCN number, it tells me the details and includes photos of my car and parking ticket etc. Ticket expired 28 minutes prior to 'contravention time'. So given the photos, the contravention obviously occurred? Yet I don't recall getting a ticket or PCN via the post at all. The first time I have been made aware is via this letter from Newlyn. On the council site it states that the status is 'case open'. However if doesn't state how much is owed.

I did move house in April 2017, but surely I would have received a PCN before that date? I updated my car log book and it has my correct name and new address.

So what do I do next?

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post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:53
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Incandescent
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 19:54
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What you do next is post-up the PCN here with PCN Number and car details blanked out. Leave everything else in..
My error - you say you never got the PCN or anything else.

It is a PCN for parking, so you should have found it on your car, but they can go astray. Next stage is the Notice to Owner, sent a minimum of 28 days after contravention date. This is sent to the address requested from DVLA by quoting the car reg. no. They would have done this on or around the 28 day period. It appears your V5 update may have not taken place before they requested the details. Once they have the address, they don't ask for it again, hence all the documents will have gone astray if you didn't put mail redirection in place. So as well as the NtO, they will have sent out a Charge Certificate, and an Order for Recovery when they registered the debt at the TEC

With the bailiffs at your door, the only way to turn this round is to submit an Out-of-Time Witness Statement to the Traffic Enforcement Centre, Northampton. Others will be on here soon to take you through the process, but the forms must be filled in very carefully to avoid them being rejected by TEC. It does sound as if they requested your details close to the date you sent off your V5 update. If you r Witness Statement is accepted, (be aware the council can object to it, and usually do so), the process is reverted to the Notice to Owner stage at which point you can appeal or pay.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 22:25
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Neil B
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 21:30
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Everything Incandescent said - except showing the PCN as you've never had it.

We are currently having success in resetting these cases -
BUT
we get a lot of people who give a bit of info and then just disappear.
I don't want to waste my time on any more like that.
So, I'll make this one post and see what response we get.

--

Here's what we need >
THE DETAIL; ALL OF IT.

You've immediately started wrong with -
QUOTE (YellowMETP @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:53) *
dated --/10/2017
on --/03/2016

I did move house in April 2017

DATES ?
From?
To?
(you don't need to tell us the 'from', 'to' precisely; you need it not us.

You will also need to find out >

- when the 'Notice to Owner' was issued and to what address.
- when DVLA updated your address details (it's on your V5C)

You also need to SHOW us the Newlyn Notice (it's debatable whether it is worth your time fighting this until we see it)

--
It will also help if you phone TEC (the Court) Monday 0300 123 1059 and ask (only)
- What address is on the warrant.
- What name
- Have either been changed and, if so, when.

- you can also ask them to e-mail you the forms you need - if we haven't progressed to linking
you to download.

---
Everything I've asked for you have or can get - and we can't.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 13:07


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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lashes1984
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 08:54
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Unless the OP has the wrong date/year that the contravention occurred, I don’t see how the OP moving address and updating DVLA would’ve affected the process.

The OP states that the contravention occurred sometime in —/03/2016 (March 2016) and they moved in April 2017, that’s just over a year after the contravention occurred. Surely they should or would’ve received statutory documents from the Enforcing Authority before they had moved.

However, until the OP provides the info as per Neil B’s post it’s all speculation.
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Neil B
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 13:09
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QUOTE (lashes1984 @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 08:54) *
Unless the OP has the wrong date/year that the contravention occurred, I don’t see how the OP moving address and updating DVLA would’ve affected the process.

The OP states that the contravention occurred sometime in —/03/2016 (March 2016) and they moved in April 2017, that’s just over a year after the contravention occurred. Surely they should or would’ve received statutory documents from the Enforcing Authority before they had moved.

However, until the OP provides the info as per Neil B’s post it’s all speculation.

Great spot lashes.
I've edited my nonsense accordingly.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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YellowMETP
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:28
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Thank you for your responses. smile.gif

I don’t think I understand what you need. Which parts do I need to blank out from the letter?
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Neil B
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:03
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QUOTE (YellowMETP @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:28) *
Which parts do I need to blank out from the letter?

Name and address and possibly PCN number.

You also need full details of your change of address and everything else I said previously.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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YellowMETP
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 16:58
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Sorry to be so slow, I have been trying to upload a photo 🤨 I don’t know how?
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Neil B
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 19:30
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QUOTE (YellowMETP @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 16:58) *
Sorry to be so slow, I have been trying to upload a photo 🤨 I don’t know how?

Host images externally, e.g. Tinypic or Flickr.

Paste the full IMG or BB codes from one of those into a reply here.

If you get stuck, tell us.

Don't wait 5 days to tell us: You are at risk.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 19:30


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 12:30
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 19:30) *
Don't wait 5 days to tell us: You are at risk.

I'm not sure why responses are so slow or sparse.

Looking at your potential saving on this, if we get you started, it's not great against the danger
of the next additional bailiff fee of £235.

Sadly, if you can't give us the info requested, very quickly, then it may be best to pay this
before that next fee is applied.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 13:55


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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YellowMETP
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 12:08
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Sorry the reason I’m slow is because I’m currently studying a MSc and it was exam week. Plus I work nights as a nurse, so not had a minute!! I do appreciate your help though!



And the back

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Incandescent
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 13:42
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OP, the longer and longer you leave this, the more you'll have to pay in the end. Bailiffs do not give up, as their living depends on being diligent.

The bailiff document gives a contravention date of 4th March 2016, which is getting close to two years ago. Assuming this is correct, the council would have obtained the name and address of the registered keeper from the DVLA after 28 days from that date, then used it to send out a Notice to Owner, followed by a Charge Certificate, and finally an Order for Recovery. All of this would have occurred in 2016.

So as I see it, you need to tell us what was happening in that period. What address was on the V5 for your car in April 2016.

If you are to turn this around and get back to the original Notice to Owner stage, you will have to submit an Out-of-Time Witness Statement that you did not receive the Notice to Owner. This will be opposed by the council and if it is TEC normally reject the OOT, and you then have to get a County Court judge to review the OOT and the rejection, and hopefully allow it. However this costs money, (£100 for paper-based review, and £255 for an interview with the judge).
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YellowMETP
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 14:49
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Ok, my address at the time in the contravention was the same as my V5, so I should have received a PCN but didn’t.

Secondly having double checked the dates, I’m certain this occurred when I was not driving. I believe it was my AuPair (of the time) who is back home and lives in Italy.e
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hcandersen
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 15:18
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The keeper is liable, I'm afraid, so that germ of a defence in your mind can be parked.

1. The PCN would have been placed on the car at the time of the contravention. So if someone else was driving there's no way of telling what they did. And it doesn't matter, because the business end doesn't start until...
2. The Notice to Owner is served on the keeper at the address held by DVLA. You've said this was you at the time and for 12 months after.
3. Incandescent has listed the other notices, giving a total of at least 3, probably more.

If you decide to fight on, then it's your choice. But beware, the PCN and current amount owed will pale into insignificance compared to escalating enforcement charges as the system grinds on.

And time is not on your side. You need to submit two forms to the Traffic Enforcement Centre (which you can download, complete and email/fax to TEC in 3-4 minutes) as soon as possible to avoid the process grinding on. And this must be done today or risk the financial consequences of further visits and charges.

And pl don't think that not having the vehicle concerned would help (if this applies) because you are the debtor, not the car, and if they were to seize your assets, they'd be lucky to realise 25p in the £.
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YellowMETP
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 16:28
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Ok, so in a nut shell, you’re basically telling me the best advice is to pay it, because my only other option (to fight) would be more costly?
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Neil B
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 16:43
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QUOTE (YellowMETP @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 16:28) *
Ok, so in a nut shell, you’re basically telling me the best advice is to pay it, because my only other option (to fight) would be more costly?

No, not more costly but risking those extra costs because you simply don't have time.
The bailiff has given you a pretty clear and specific date - today.

There are certainly some things that should be looked into;
The Council shouldn't take so long to enforce - Mar 16 to Oct 17.

But I suspect the contravention date is wrong and it follows that, if it should read
2017, it explains why you didn't get the NtO: In fact, it would, near as damn it, prove you didn't.

But again, it's too late to look into it without risking at least £235 being added.

I can't suggest action that puts you at risk: I think payment might be your only
realistic option now.

--
If it later turns out the bailiff or authority have erred then you can always still make the application
to the Court (TEC).


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 17:03
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If you can submit the forms today then the enforcement process is put on hold until TEC respond.

https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.justice....charge)-eng.pdf

https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.justice....charge)-eng.pdf

As regards the TE9, just tick I did not receive the PCN ..(which for these purposes includes the NTO).
As regards the TE7, I don't know what else you can say other than that you did not receive the PCN or any notices from the authority and was not aware of this contravention until contacted by enforcement agents. The contravention occurred in March 2016 at which time your details as keeper were current with DVLA as required. You received no notices prior to moving house in April 2017, over 12 months later. This is not a case of changing addresses while notices are served or mail forwarding: you were resident at your DVLA address for 12 months following the contravention and clearly a breakdown in communication has occurred and now that the enforcement agents have thankfully closed this loop you respectfully request that you be given the opportunity to make representations to the authority.


See what others think.

What you don't and must not do is to dscuss the contravention, that is a no-no.
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YellowMETP
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 20:34
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Thank you, what do you mean by ‘you must not discuss the contravention’?
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Incandescent
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 21:08
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QUOTE (YellowMETP @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 20:34) *
Thank you, what do you mean by ‘you must not discuss the contravention’?

All you are doing is a request to the TEC tp reset the matter to the Notice to Owner stage due to having not received the statutory documents which form part of the enforcement process. You are not dealing with the alleged contravention at all, that comes later if the OOT is accepted. Once the matter is reverted, you can appeal or pay the PCN penalty.

HCA will confirm this.
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John U.K.
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 21:13
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QUOTE (YellowMETP @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 20:34) *
Thank you, what do you mean by ‘you must not discuss the contravention’?


The TEC has no jurisdiction over the rightness or otherwise of the PCN and the events which may or may not have caused its issue.

They are solely concerned with whether you have or have not received any notification of the alleged offence.

Often people are tempted to plead (on the TEC form) their case for the PCN being wrong.
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