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32d Denman street with Shaftesbury Avenue
mduklp
post Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 17:48
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Good evening,
I am a new member and in need of some advice.
A few weeks ago I was in London for a course and took an incorrect turn at the traffic lights. At the time I did not realise I was not allowed to turn left.
A few days later I received a penalty charge notice. I appealed against it and it was rejected.
I then appealed again and I have received a written response today.
My appeal has been rejected.
I have attached the letter below.

If anyone could help and advise me on how to proceed I would appreciate it.

Regards
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post Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 17:48
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stamfordman
post Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 17:53
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This is a common site on the forum, and you'll find a fair few if you search.

Use a pic site such as Flickr to post docs (post the BBCode links).
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mduklp
post Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 18:11
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QUOTE (mduklp @ Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 17:48) *
Good evening,
I am a new member and in need of some advice.
A few weeks ago I was in London for a course and took an incorrect turn at the traffic lights. At the time I did not realise I was not allowed to turn left.
A few days later I received a penalty charge notice. I appealed against it and it was rejected.
I then appealed again and I have received a written response today.
My appeal has been rejected.
I have attached the letter below.

If anyone could help and advise me on how to proceed I would appreciate it.

Regards


Attached is the file.
I will have a look around on the site.
Thanks
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
 
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Neil B
post Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 19:20
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And the rest?

Gotta laugh at WM reference to TMA for moving traffic, again.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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mduklp
post Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 19:32
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 19:20) *
And the rest?

Gotta laugh at WM reference to TMA for moving traffic, again.


Hi
That is all that they sent me.
I've just realised that my fine has fone upto £130 from £65!

Do I have any grounds on appealing to the tribunal?

Regards
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 19:39
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QUOTE (mduklp @ Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 19:32) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 19:20) *
And the rest?

Gotta laugh at WM reference to TMA for moving traffic, again.


Hi
That is all that they sent me.
I've just realised that my fine has fone upto £130 from £65!

Do I have any grounds on appealing to the tribunal?

Regards


The PCN and your representations
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stamfordman
post Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 19:56
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If you've looked at the threads on this action you'll see that a couple at least have been conceded by Westminster I think. If you have lost the discount then you have nothing to lose by taking it to the tribunal. But as PMB says we need to see your appeals - you seem to feel strongly about this one.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 19:56
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mduklp
post Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:29
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This post has been edited by mduklp: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:42
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Neil B
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 03:11
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QUOTE (mduklp @ Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 19:32) *
That is all that they sent me.

You've now posted more but unreadable, so we still don't know the applicable timescales or
what WM are saying.

Still missing the PCN, which is the doc that is very likely legally flawed.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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mduklp
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 09:03
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Sorry struggling to upload documents.
I will upload the on this evening after work.
Can you recommend a site to upload documents?Flickr does not seem to work.
Regards
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Neil B
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 09:15
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QUOTE (mduklp @ Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 09:03) *
Flickr does not seem to work.

In what way? Describe the stages.

It is a few extra clicks (in the right place) but works ok.

Or try Tinypic. Slower but simpler.

DON'T play with image size - that's automatic.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Jo Carn
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 11:12
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Am attending a tribunal in a couple of weeks exactly re this issue.
I can't see the photos but I am guessing that roughly in the middle of the photo there is a blue sign which indicates buses and cycles only. If I am right then this sign is for the traffic coming down Shaftesbury Ave however it got moved and now faces the driver coming out of Denman Street. It means that on your left hand side you have a "ahead only" blue arrow but on your right hand side you have "buses and cycles only" - damned if you do, damned if you don't. This is particularly confusing for you as you are not familiar with the area.

Below is something you might like to add to the end of your representation.


I refer you to a similar case was brought to the London Tribunal (ref: 2170256137) when the appeal was allowed.

The Adjudicator’s Reasons stated:

“I have accepted the buses and cycles only sign was out of correct alignment and this factor understandably resulted in the driver in question proceeding as he did.”

He then added: “I have assumed that the buses and cycles only sign position has been subsequently corrected but if not, the Council I believe should take early steps to attend to its correction.”

The images provided on Westminster’s website show that Westminster Council has allowed the sign to be positioned in the wrong place and taken no action to correct it against the Adjudicator's recommendation.

Now that the amount has gone up to £130, I would definitely take this to Tribunal. I can't imagine an adjudicator seeing that a colleagues recommendation has been ignored.

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mduklp
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 18:13
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Thanks for the helpful replies so far.
Attached is the PCN






The initial appeals letter





Any further help appreciated guys.
If the documents not working I can email it to someone if that is easier?

Regards

This post has been edited by mduklp: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 18:19
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 18:46
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Your appeal must be registered with LT by Tuesday the 9th Jan. I suggest that you register online and in the box for your appeal state full representation to follow, the tribunal will then register your appeal and tell you be when you need to submit your appeal.

In the mean time you need to get the video. There is an error on the PCN that has won in the past
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mduklp
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 20:09
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 18:46) *
Your appeal must be registered with LT by Tuesday the 9th Jan. I suggest that you register online and in the box for your appeal state full representation to follow, the tribunal will then register your appeal and tell you be when you need to submit your appeal.

In the mean time you need to get the video. There is an error on the PCN that has won in the past



Hi
I have got access to the video. Not sure how to link or upload it.
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stamfordman
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 21:19
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Put it on Youtube, Flickr etc.
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mduklp
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 14:18
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Hi attached is the video on youtube.

https://youtu.be/O5_TPiV8TN8

Regards
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mduklp
post Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 19:30
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 18:46) *
Your appeal must be registered with LT by Tuesday the 9th Jan. I suggest that you register online and in the box for your appeal state full representation to follow, the tribunal will then register your appeal and tell you be when you need to submit your appeal.

In the mean time you need to get the video. There is an error on the PCN that has won in the past


Hi Just wondering if you were able to give any further advice?

Regards
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Neil B
post Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 19:37
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You registered your appeal?

As PMB said, amongst other things, the PCN has a serious flaw but I still can't see past your thumbnail.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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John U.K.
post Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 19:37
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QUOTE
Hi Just wondering if you were able to give any further advice?


Have you registered the appeal?

Have you got the video?
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