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52M - Pedestrian Street Entry
vagabond
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 20:17
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So I was going down Walthamstow village through some tight turns and went around a stopped vehicle on wingfield rd to immediately turn right into what felt like a pedestrian-only road (orford rd). I did not have the space to turn around and was a one-way anyway so I crawled through it and went home, few days after which I got this notice. I am guilty of going through it and my defense is that it's not an easy one to see one a narrow street when you turn right on to it. Also I am pretty sure this restriction is new - not that this has any moral or legal standing

GSV: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5822827,-...3312!8i6656

Fine is a hefty one so any input is highly appreciated. Thanks in advance - I will read up a bit on this as well but I don't think I have a lot of time to respond

This post has been edited by vagabond: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 20:21
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post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 20:17
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 20:21
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Post the PCN all pages
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vagabond
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 20:23
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 20:21) *
Post the PCN all pages


Hi, just added the page 1. The rest are standard text but will add them as soon as I get to photograph them - I had assumed this would suffice. Thanks
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Incandescent
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 22:07
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GSV is no good for looking at this one as it's two years out-of-date, and only shows the work in progress, and no restriction signs. It is the signs we need to see, (or lack/indequacy of them). The PCN shows it is a street restricted to certain classes of vehicles and your vehicle isn't one of them.

Any chance you can take some photos and post them here.
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Neil B
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 22:19
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Here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5822956,-...3312!8i6656

But even that isn't any good.
The 'no vehicles' signs were used, amusingly, for this pro-cycling scheme and I hear have been changed at least twice since.

I guess OP isn't local as this 'Mini Holland' has been the biggest hot potato locally for well over a year.

May be up to date sign pics in previous cases on forum.

Noting past discount so got to fight anyway.

Deadline for reps, 10th December.


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Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 22:30
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Lots of info in post #12 of this Incl TMO
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...5&hl=orford

So it's probably flying motorbikes now.
I really don't like the one-way arrows on top, referring only to the excepted buses.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 00:18
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Vagabond.

Can I just ask if you understand
- your current financial liability for this PCN, in terms of amount due?
- that nothing more would be risked by challenging it?


and we still need that PCN please.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 11:02
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The original experimental order was replaced with this one:-

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2642250

In essence, as much as they describe it as a prescribed route, these orders provide a mini-Holland scheme which is in fact a Pedestrian Zone/Restricted Zone as noted in the replacement order. The planners have misled themselves with the "prescribed route" description and IMO got the signage wrong esp the blue sign with the white arrow.

Should have been a variation of a Diagram 618.3 sign:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/8/made

That said I don't think we can make much of that mistake.

I just wonder if the Sect 36 sign v the TMO impasse might be a suitable ground for this one.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 11:27
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Neil B
post Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 11:52
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 11:02) *
I just wonder if the Sect 36 sign v the TMO impasse might be a suitable ground for this one.

I defer to you on whether that can be used here.

High losing percentage at adjudication but of the few winners, this approach from Wingfield is very relevant.
- unsighted for signs and possibly absent advance warning.
The misleading one-way arrows are also mentioned.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
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Neil B
post Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 12:03
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2160402083


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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vagabond
post Sun, 3 Dec 2017 - 12:28
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Hi All

I do apologize for not responding while all of you have been spending all this effort on this! Just been a bit busy and was overwhelmed by the response. So anyway, here is the full PCN...

I must admit I dont fully follow the discussion here but I haven't yet read the referenced posts but will do soon

cheers
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vagabond
post Sun, 3 Dec 2017 - 12:44
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 00:18) *
Vagabond.

Can I just ask if you understand
- your current financial liability for this PCN, in terms of amount due?
- that nothing more would be risked by challenging it?


and we still need that PCN please.



I fully intend to challenge, just building up information for a stronger challenge. I did not intend to wait beyond the discount date but left it too long.

And no, I am not local here, my friend is. I am going on a whistle stop trip tonight then to the airport but will try to get a photo.

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vagabond
post Tue, 12 Dec 2017 - 23:08
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taken yesterday
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Neil B
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 00:55
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Does anyone know the precise meaning/parameters of 'traffic' as described by TSRGD 2016?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 10:20
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'I fully intend to challenge, just building up information for a stronger challenge.'?????????, posted 3 Dec.

PCN dated 9 Nov, therefore deemed served 13th, which is day 1 of period of 28 days after which the authority may disregard any reps.

28-day period ended 10 Dec.

Today is 13th.

OP, you've gone from the opportunity to pay the discount to potentially being liable for a surcharged penalty of £195.

If you don't give this matter the attention it deserves you could ultimately have enforcement officers at your door waving a warrant.

Make reps online or by email NOW. You do not have time for further analysis.

I did not see the sign when I turned from A into *****, neither did I notice any warning traffic signs in A prior to the junction. I am not local to the area although I have visited before when the restriction was not in force ( if true). Please exercise discretion on this occasion.

Let's at least see if they'll re-offer the discount.
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vagabond
post Sat, 16 Dec 2017 - 14:53
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Hi hcandersen

I fully realize the lateness of this, I must admit the nature of the last few weeks plus the fact that I was traveling last two weeks meant this got forgotten. Ironically I landed in Stansted and drive past this road in order to take the above photo after which I went home and appealed. It did say that the charge is now the full £195 (which I accept is my own doing) but it did accept the appeal.

I mentioned that the appeal is based on the combination of the changing of restrictions compounded by the narrow approach road and sharp right making the sign changes less likely to be noticed - all of which completely reflect what happened.

I will update this page as and when things progress, thank you all for your inputs so far


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vagabond
post Tue, 9 Jan 2018 - 00:35
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Update

Got a rejection notice a couple of days ago, but PC is acting up so had to do redaction and upload on phone, took me a while..

I've made a pdf pack, please have a look - http://docdro.id/67dEVxW

The reg plate is blurry in the photos where you can see the location but it's clear on the zoomed in one, which of course i have blurred out.

I'm all ears..
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 9 Jan 2018 - 10:09
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Well they have re-offered the discount so you need to carefully weigh up your evidence to determine whether you have better than 50:50? 60:40? 80:20? chance of success (you choose).

Mick
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vagabond
post Tue, 9 Jan 2018 - 19:57
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I did think that, either way is got me a few days time to consider it. I guess it'll depend on what comes up here..

Thanks for your time
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Neil B
post Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 22:49
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Have you got the vid for this?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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