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PCN code 12R, Threads merged
poboskie
post Tue, 3 May 2016 - 09:54
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Hello to all,

Some advice would be greatly appreciated on this matter please.

I received a PCN from the council with code 12R on 04/03/16. I challenged the penalty by email on 15/03/16 asking for consideration as I did have a ticket but I mistakenly scratched the wrong month on the weekly visitor permit. I scratched February instead of March. I also provided the council with the 5 previous weekly visitor permits, hence they could see that I had valid permits on those dates and I was not trying to pull a fast one by using the same permit twice. I appealed to their good nature as at the time of scratching the ticket I was dealing with my autistic child who was unsettled. I received an email confirmation stating that they will respond within 10 working days. However, the council responded by mail over a month later (letter is dated 18/04/16) and denied my appeal. They gave me the option of paying the amount of £65 within 14 days of the letter after which case the penalty will revert to the full amount of £130.

Do I have a positive chance of contesting this PCN after the issue of the notice to owner? Please kindly help as a cannot afford this fine.

Thank you
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post Tue, 3 May 2016 - 09:54
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Jo Carn
post Tue, 3 May 2016 - 10:15
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Could we have a look at the PCN please. The only information you need to remove is the licence plate, your name and address (if on it) and the PCN number. Did they send any photos? If so, upload these. Also upload any photos you might have taken.

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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 3 May 2016 - 13:58
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If you displayed something for that parking place or zone then you have been given the wrong contravention and asked to pay more than would have been due if you had been given the proper Code.

Code 19 "Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone either displaying an invalid permit or voucher or pay and display ticket, or after the expiry of paid for time".

Wrong contravention = Invalid PCN.

See if the Council's website has CEO photos showing the permit on display.

Mick
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poboskie
post Tue, 3 May 2016 - 15:45
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Thank you for your replies. I am having trouble uploading the photos.

But yes they do have pictures of my parking permit on display. also one where it place the PCN, next to my permit. I will keep trying to upload.

What is my next course of action please?

Thank you.
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John U.K.
post Tue, 3 May 2016 - 16:32
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QUOTE
Thank you for your replies. I am having trouble uploading the photos.


Have you tried this method?
Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:
Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image, and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.
Redact/obscure personal details, PCN no. Reg No.

Also post up a GSV (Google Street View) link to the location.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.
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poboskie
post Thu, 9 Jun 2016 - 10:57
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My apologies it took so long to get back to you all. I was dealing with a medical emergency.

I am still unable to upload the images but I can guarantee that a permit was displayed at the time of contravention. There is also a picture with the permit displayed next to the given parking fine on the council website.

The council have rejected my appeal and have sent me a notice to owner. The 28 days run out yesterday as I was in the hospital. As "Mad Mick V" has already pointed out, i was given the wrong contravention code and asked to pay more than necessary.

The contravention code is 12R.

Could someone kindly help with my next course of action please? Can the fine be cancelled all together? Or will they fie me the correct amount? What do I do please? if necessary, I can forward the pictures via email but I'm unable to upload them in the forum as the system does not allow it.

Thank you
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Mad Mick V
post Sat, 11 Jun 2016 - 12:01
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Presumably you are still awaiting the Notice to Owner.

When you get that I would appeal on the basis of the wrong contravention been given and that you have been prejudiced by being dunned for a higher penalty.

Ensure you hammer home the issue that you displayed a permit applicable to that parking zone but an error had been made in making it out. Ergo it was invalid but still relevant for that place, had it been completed properly.

Put the Council on the spot. Write to them and say if they decide to reject your NTO appeal then they must provide full reasons why they believe a contravention code 19 is not appropriate.

The following case from 6th June will help:-

2160168317

The Appellant attended in person. The Authority was not represented.

The Appellant said that she was not reminded of the renewal of her permit. The responsibility for renewing a permit falls on the motorist.

The Appellant also said that the white time-plate was not present when the PCN was issued The Authority did not dispute this. It says however that there is a large yellow sign.

The Appellant vehicle has a permit in in. It has expired but it is clear evidence that the Appellant was aware that parking in the bays on the estate requires a permit.

Finally, the Appellant queries why a Code 19 allegation has not been averred. The Authority says that this is a Code used for estate parking and there is nothing wrong with it. Code 19 carries a smaller penalty. When the Authority chooses to aver a contravention with a higher penalty, there needs to be some justification as to why a contravention with a higher penalty is averred. The Authority has not offered any justification.

Upholding the PCN with a higher penalty is unfair. I allow the appeal.

Remember-----Wrong Code = Invalid PCN.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 - 14:15
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poboskie
post Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 19:16
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Hello all,

You will be able to get some history on my current battle with the council regarding the PCN on this link
http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t105714.html

The system will not allow me to post any files.

Cutting the long story short, I had scratched the wrong month on my permit (February instead of March). I appealed and provided the council with my 5 previous weekly permits which clearly showed that I had valid permits in February and that I had made a genuine mistake by scratching February instead of March on my current permit. My original appeal to the contravention 12R was refused. I appealed within 14 days on 15/03/16.
The council did not respond to my appeal within the time of 10 working days they had set out and instead it took 25 working days and their response was dated 18/04/16.

After receiving the NTO dated 11/05/16, I made representations on 24/05/16. I did not received a reply from the council and received a charge certificate dated 16/06/16 and the amount payable increased to £195. I ignored it as I had not received a response to my representation.

In November 16, i received the form TE3 with which I filed a witness statement stating that I had not received a response to my NTO representation and at the same time, i resent my original representation to the council on 04/11/16 by recorded delivery.

The courts found in my favour on 22/11/16 and ordered the council to cancel the charge certificate.

I then received another charge certificate from the council dated 04/01/17. I queried this on 20/01/17 and asked why was I again sent a charged certificate, yet my representations was not yet responded to. I reiterated that it was sent via recorded delivery and was signed for on 07/11/16.

The council did not response until 28 working days later. Their letter was dated 28/02/17 and stated they had not received my representation in May 2016 and that another NTO was sent out on 29/11/16.

I explained that I had not received this new NTO but I had already sent a copy of my original representation on 04/11/16 and did they not respond to that.

They ignored my concerns and claimed that the charge cretificate will remain as it is valid.

I then received another TE3 form to which I completed the witness statement on 28/95/17. Unfortunately I ticked the first 2 boxes as both applied. I had not received the new NTO the council claimed to have sent on 29/11/16 and I had not received a response to my representation. I was not aware that I could not tick 2 boxes and the courts did not accept my form. I queried this with them by email and received acknolegment of my query but no repliy.

I was not prepared with what was to follow. I received a notice of enforcement from Newlyn dated 20/06/17, requesting payment of £278 to be paid by 04/07/17 or a visit will be made after that.

I contacted the traffic enforcement centre (TEC) and queried what I happened to my witness statement. They explained it had not been accepted. I told them I had queried this and am still waiting on a response. They said I needed to apply for an Out of time witness statement (form TE7) which I did on 22/06/17.

I did not receive a reply from the court until a few days ago. It was dated 30/07/17. My appeal has been refused.

I have the option of appealing by paying £100 (for a reconsideration without hearing) or £255 (for reconsideration with a hearing).

I don't know what to do. I believe there has been a procedural improperly on the part of the enforcement authority as they did not comply with my appeal in a reasonable time and also the council is looking to benefit financially from a genuine mistake. My appeal was not carefully considered. There is a difference between trying to avoid paying for parking and making a genuine mistake.

I need advise on how to proceed please. Do I cut my losses and put this experience to bad luck or can I fight this further?
Do I have grounds to fight further?
Am I looking at further expenses awarded against me?

PLEASE HELP ME.

Thank you all.

This post has been edited by poboskie: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:19
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peterguk
post Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 19:19
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QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
You will be able to get some history on my current battle with the council regarding the PCN on this link
http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t105714.html


So why not post there instead of starting a new thread?


--------------------
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Neil B
post Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 19:40
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QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
I have the option of appealing by paying £100 (for a reconcederation with hearing) or £255 (for reconsideration with a hearing).

Do I have grounds to fight further?

I've read and understood, I think.
So, yes, you have sound reason.

BUT - I'm going to cut to the chase >

You have only a few days to act.

Get the threads amalgamated by a mod.

QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
The system will not allow me to post any files.

The solution was explained to you in your previous thread. If you don't sort this it is impossible to help.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 19:55
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QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
After receiving the NTO dated 11/05/16, I made representations on 24/05/16.

Your previous thread indicates you didn't.

?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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poboskie
post Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:12
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 19:55) *
QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
After receiving the NTO dated 11/05/16, I made representations on 24/05/16.

Your previous thread indicates you didn't.

?


I had forgotten at the time of posting but my partner had sent the NTO representation in May 2016.

QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 19:19) *
QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
You will be able to get some history on my current battle with the council regarding the PCN on this link
http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t105714.html


So why not post there instead of starting a new thread?


My apologies, I though it would be easier to start a new thread.

QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 19:40) *
QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
I have the option of appealing by paying £100 (for a reconcederation with hearing) or £255 (for reconsideration with a hearing).

Do I have grounds to fight further?

I've read and understood, I think.
So, yes, you have sound reason.

BUT - I'm going to cut to the chase >

You have only a few days to act.

Get the threads amalgamated by a mod.

QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
The system will not allow me to post any files.

The solution was explained to you in your previous thread. If you don't sort this it is impossible to help.

Thank you for your response. How do I get the thread amalgated by a mod?

I am dependant on my phone to post files and the route suggested did not work out.

I was going to accept defeat but I feel that the council is deliberately abusing their power in my case.

This post has been edited by poboskie: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:21
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stamfordman
post Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:15
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I have asked mod to merge the threads.
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poboskie
post Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:20
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:15) *
I have asked mod to merge the threads.

Thank you.
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Neil B
post Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:38
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Need the following.
QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
-The courts found in my favour on 22/11/16 and ordered the council to cancel the charge certificate.

-I then received another charge certificate from the council dated 04/01/17.

-I queried this on 20/01/17

-The council did not response until 28 working days later. Their letter was dated 28/02/17 and stated they had not received my representation in May 2016 and that another NTO was sent out on 29/11/16.


-I queried this with them by email and received acknolegment of my query but no repliy. (screenshots)

-Out of time witness statement (form TE7) which I did on 22/06/17. Very important



QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
-Out of time witness statement (form TE7) which I did on 22/06/17.


And you did send TE3 as well?

This post has been edited by Neil B: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:40


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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poboskie
post Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 21:00
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:38) *
Need the following.
QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
-The courts found in my favour on 22/11/16 and ordered the council to cancel the charge certificate.

-I then received another charge certificate from the council dated 04/01/17.

-I queried this on 20/01/17

-The council did not response until 28 working days later. Their letter was dated 28/02/17 and stated they had not received my representation in May 2016 and that another NTO was sent out on 29/11/16.


-I queried this with them by email and received acknolegment of my query but no repliy. (screenshots)

-Out of time witness statement (form TE7) which I did on 22/06/17. Very important



QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
-Out of time witness statement (form TE7) which I did on 22/06/17.


And you did send TE3 as well?


I will post the pics as soon as I figure out how.

Basically I was awarded the first TE3 in November 2016.

Another was sent in May 2017. I filed it on May 28th 2017 but it was refused as I had ticked 2 boxes. I queried it but received no reply. TECthen asked me to send the TE3 and TE7 at the end of June 2017.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 21:04
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Flickr is good for pics - upload to there and then copy and paste the BBCode share links.
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Neil B
post Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 22:25
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QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
The council --------- that another NTO was sent out on 29/11/16.

This is out of process and unlawful.
You could potentially end up paying nothing.

QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 22:00) *
TECthen asked me to send the TE3 and TE7 at the end of June 2017.

I only asked this bit - did you also send TE3? - and the answer seems to be yes.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 22:26


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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poboskie
post Wed, 9 Aug 2017 - 07:06
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 22:25) *
QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 20:16) *
The council --------- that another NTO was sent out on 29/11/16.

This is out of process and unlawful.
You could potentially end up paying nothing.

QUOTE (poboskie @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 22:00) *
TECthen asked me to send the TE3 and TE7 at the end of June 2017.

I only asked this bit - did you also send TE3? - and the answer seems to be yes.


Yes TE7 was sent on 22/06/17
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poboskie
post Wed, 9 Aug 2017 - 07:16
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 8 Aug 2017 - 21:04) *
Flickr is good for pics - upload to there and then copy and paste the BBCode share links.


Thank you. I have uploaded to Flickr, here is the bbcode (hope it works)

https://www.flickr.com/gp/153515074@N07/227QnE

The first picture will be at the bottom and work your way up. Sorry, I'm not sure how to change that.

This post has been edited by poboskie: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 - 07:21
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