PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Forest Road E17 / Russell Road E17 - worth fighting if I'm 100% in the wrong?
neverpaying
post Tue, 4 Oct 2022 - 21:59
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120



Hello all,

I'm a numpty because I didn't see the box junction, entered, and then sat in it the entire time while the lights were red. Can I still appeal the PCN in this case?

"Do not ignore this notice - you are legally responsible for complying with it. Do not pass it to the driver."

"The penalty charge of £130.00 must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice. If it is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of this notice the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by 50% to £65.00"

Album of 4 pages: https://imgur.com/a/iyU4Gvo
Page 1: https://i.imgur.com/iYW5ZrN.jpeg
Page 2: https://i.imgur.com/2VLS8FT.jpeg
Page 3: https://i.imgur.com/C5AT4yr.jpeg
Page 4: https://i.imgur.com/yZUQaEJ.jpeg

Video: https://imgur.com/a/X2Dd4Hs

From my understanding, I have until the end of the 6th to at least say I am making an appeal to retain my discounted charge, is that right?

This post has been edited by neverpaying: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 - 22:56
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
3 Pages V  < 1 2 3  
Start new topic
Replies (40 - 52)
Advertisement
post Tue, 4 Oct 2022 - 21:59
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Schofeldt
post Thu, 10 Nov 2022 - 07:52
Post #41


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,402
Joined: 14 Apr 2022
Member No.: 116,298



QUOTE (neverpaying @ Wed, 9 Nov 2022 - 20:40) *
QUOTE (astralite @ Wed, 9 Nov 2022 - 18:17) *
neverpaying; did you lodge an appeal?


I've just replied to Schofeldt's private message. I think I need his details for representation. After I have that, I will submit an empty appeal saying the documents will follow later.

PM sent with details. Choose: penalty exceeded the amount. And state: I rely upon my formal representations and I will provide further submissions as required.


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neverpaying
post Thu, 10 Nov 2022 - 22:33
Post #42


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120



QUOTE (Schofeldt @ Thu, 10 Nov 2022 - 07:52) *
QUOTE (neverpaying @ Wed, 9 Nov 2022 - 20:40) *
QUOTE (astralite @ Wed, 9 Nov 2022 - 18:17) *
neverpaying; did you lodge an appeal?


I've just replied to Schofeldt's private message. I think I need his details for representation. After I have that, I will submit an empty appeal saying the documents will follow later.

PM sent with details. Choose: penalty exceeded the amount. And state: I rely upon my formal representations and I will provide further submissions as required.


Thank you, I've lodged an appeal now with those parameters
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Schofeldt
post Fri, 11 Nov 2022 - 10:52
Post #43


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,402
Joined: 14 Apr 2022
Member No.: 116,298



We need to exchange e mail details as, if there are any problems and I need to ring the tribunal, these are a necessity. biggrin.gif


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neverpaying
post Sun, 13 Nov 2022 - 00:15
Post #44


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120



QUOTE (Schofeldt @ Fri, 11 Nov 2022 - 10:52) *
We need to exchange e mail details as, if there are any problems and I need to ring the tribunal, these are a necessity. biggrin.gif


I've just sent you mine now
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Schofeldt
post Mon, 14 Nov 2022 - 14:57
Post #45


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,402
Joined: 14 Apr 2022
Member No.: 116,298



QUOTE (neverpaying @ Sun, 13 Nov 2022 - 00:15) *
QUOTE (Schofeldt @ Fri, 11 Nov 2022 - 10:52) *
We need to exchange e mail details as, if there are any problems and I need to ring the tribunal, these are a necessity. biggrin.gif


I've just sent you mine now

Received and message sent.


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Schofeldt
post Tue, 15 Nov 2022 - 07:47
Post #46


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,402
Joined: 14 Apr 2022
Member No.: 116,298



We have a date.


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Schofeldt
post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 19:01
Post #47


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,402
Joined: 14 Apr 2022
Member No.: 116,298



QUOTE (MrChips @ Mon, 7 Nov 2022 - 12:42) *
Here's a starter for 10 re the actual contravention. Others will need to top and tail and append an additional paragraph or two re the technical points.

NB I've steered away from anything which implies your intention was to move into the left lane as that will likely condemn you - if your only intention was to move across, you effectively did "have to" stop where you did. It's important to stress you keeping your options open with regards your exit.

The final paragraph is optional - I like it as the authority will not have the longer footage and it adds weight to the fact that you did not commit the contravention. But if you vividly recall the incident and don't feel comfortable including this you can remove it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE PCN XXXXXXXX

When it comes to box junctions, it is important to fully understand the regulations which set out precisely the events which lead to an offence. They are as follows:

"a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles"

The drafting makes it clear that not all stops within a box junction are automatically an offence. To commit a contravention not only does the stop need to be caused by stationary vehicles, but it also has to be strictly necessary in the circumstances (indicated by the deliberate inclusion of the words "has to" by the draftsman). To put this another way, stops within the box junction which are voluntary and not necessitated by the presence of stationary vehicles are not punishable.

The reason I stopped on this occasion is not because I had to but because I simply did not notice that I was in a box junction at all. While this is regrettable, and I acknowledge that it is my own responsibility to see and comply with properly located road signs, I would point out that the box junction is extremely small and sited at the junction with a very minor (one-way only) side road which makes it a more surprising location for a box junction to be sited than is typical.

In this context, as I approached the stop at the lights, I had to make a choice as to whether to remain in my existing right hand lane or to move across into the left hand lane. Traffic conditions seem to have been very light and so there was the option to continue in the right hand lane with a view to moving off more quickly once the lights turned green. From viewing the footage I can see that on my approach I was essentially caught in two minds and neither committed to the left lane nor continued in the empty right hand lane.

Had I known my car was straddling a box junction I would obviously have continued into the vacant space ahead of me. It was the fact of not knowing that led to my stopping where I did, as opposed to poor judgement at the point of entering the box which is what the contravention is intended to punish. I would add that had a car arrived at the junction coming from the opposite direction intending to turn right into Russell Road, I would have simply moved forward into the empty space ahead of me to avoid blocking its path. The fact that this option remained open to me clearly demonstrates that I did not have to stop where I did and thus that critical part of the contravention wording is not satisfied and as such the contravention as stated did not occur.

I would also add that it's disappointing that the footage stops where it does as it does not show what happened next. Not realising that I was in a box, I do not fully recall the incident and it's entirely possibly that after a brief pause I ultimately decided to continue into the vacant space ahead. Should I have done so, that would even more clearly show a contravention was not committed as it would be self evident that my decision to stop was entirely voluntary and not forced on me by the stationary vehicle in the left lane).


Hi Mr Chips. As we are now at the Tribunal stage, could you please shorten this? Also, it seems to me that the argument of over signage should be introduced. Thanks in advance.


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Schofeldt
post Wed, 21 Dec 2022 - 20:20
Post #48


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,402
Joined: 14 Apr 2022
Member No.: 116,298



I am in the mood.


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MrChips
post Thu, 22 Dec 2022 - 12:26
Post #49


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,120
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Member No.: 30,237



Good luck, I see it's listed for 2pm.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Schofeldt
post Thu, 22 Dec 2022 - 20:43
Post #50


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,402
Joined: 14 Apr 2022
Member No.: 116,298



I will post tomorrow. e mails sent.

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 - 20:51


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Schofeldt
post Fri, 23 Dec 2022 - 07:15
Post #51


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,402
Joined: 14 Apr 2022
Member No.: 116,298



http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...=0#entry1744092

Not prejudiced by this statement? Irrelevant. Jackson J should have been followed as per his judgment in Moses v Barnet, High Court decision.

Application for review to be filed re inconsistencies re wording (philou's case won) and compliance of the YBJ.(2210108150). Will ask for a panel decision and link two other cases refused recently re another council.

Any views on the cycle lane?

Review application filed.

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Sat, 24 Dec 2022 - 07:56


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neverpaying
post Sat, 4 Feb 2023 - 19:08
Post #52


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120



Carl Teper adjudicated over the review that we filed and has refused the application.

QUOTE
I have read the Appellant's application for a review, considered the evidence, read the Appeal Adjudicator's decision and listened to ___ oral submissions.
A review application is not a second hearing but a consideration as to whether the Appeal Adjudicator was entitled to come to the decision he did on the evidence before him; and not whether I or another Adjudicator may have come to a different decision.
I do not find that there is any fresh evidence that was not or could not have been made available at the hearing.
I cannot entertain the arguments advanced by ___ in relation to a panel hearing or reconsider Notices that the Appeal Adjudicator had made a clear decision about, such as the contents of the Notice of Rejection or other Adjudicator's decisions.
I find that the Appeal Adjudicator was entitled to reach the decision he did, on the basis of the evidence before him, and that it discloses no error of law.
There is no ground under the Regulations on which that decision may be disturbed.
The application is refused and the original decision stands.


The full PCN amount has already been paid (disregard my username).

Thanks again to Schofeldt and astralite for their efforts towards this case, it was much appreciated even if the lottery didn't work out this time!

This post has been edited by neverpaying: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 - 19:10
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Schofeldt
post Sat, 4 Feb 2023 - 20:23
Post #53


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,402
Joined: 14 Apr 2022
Member No.: 116,298



Technical appeals are always challenging. Kitchen sink job.


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 10:36
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here