County Court Claim Form Help pls - Excel Parking Services Options

[Winfield]

Hey guys, I have read as much as I can and think there may be hope. Sorry to perhaps repeat, it's my first time facing a court claim and I'm a little nervous to get it right.

I have moved address and our car may still have the V5 registered to our old house. The new owner hand delivered the Claim Form as the first document we received. The Claim was issued in late July 2020 and the claim is for a date in December 2019. The Claim is for £185. Amount Claimed is £160 + £25 court fee.

So far I have spoken with the supermarket and requested that they have it cancelled on the drivers behalf since there is insufficient signage and what there is appears to be complimentary customer parking in their colours. That failed, so as registered keeper, I went to pay the fine and found that EPS don't have any active customer service, it just circles back to the auto pay line or hangs up. Tried the phone pay and online pay and it doesn't recognise the reference given on the Claim Form. I then thought, if you can't pay it, fight it... ridiculous people! Final step was to file an AOS with dispute of the whole claim and hit the forums.

From what I understand the best defence will likely explaining the improper signage. I have followed the claim description to look at the site and on google maps there is only a very small print sign at the entrance which would not have been legible to the driver. There is no visibility of a single sign from the SW corner of the carpark and certainly non from the parent and child spaces . Google maps does show one machine from the closest corner of the carpark, but again in supermarket colours, so easy to miss and somewhat obscured by protruding brickwork and drainpipe. After that there seems to be nothing more before entering the shop, but a big small print sign is present beyond the entrance at the wrong angle to read on that approach.

I hope I have successfully linked a couple of images to give you an idea and any advice would be a great help. I have no info to go on except these couple of details on the Claim Form and there is no solicitor named. I'm not sure what the next step is or if I need a template or just plain English in writing a defence??

Please help... thanks in advance

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www.imageshack.com

This post has been edited by Winfield: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 - 07:47

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[The Rookie]

When you did the AOS, did you enter anything in the defence box at all, or leave it completely empty?

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 - 20:27

[Winfield]

I left the defence empty

[Sheffield Dave]

First edit your post to avoid hinting at the identity of the driver. You are the registered keeper and all paperwork will have been sent to the RK. The driver on the day will have had no further involvement. In your post refer to the driver on the day as "the driver"; no I / we / my wife etc.

When did you move? Did you receive any of the previous paperwork (NtK etc)? What breach are they alleging? Did the driver do what they allege? Have you identified the driver to them in any correspondence? Are both the signs and claimant in the name of Excel - or is one VCS?

[Winfield]

First edit your post to avoid hinting at the identity of the driver. You are the registered keeper and all paperwork will have been sent to the RK. The driver on the day will have had no further involvement. In your post refer to the driver on the day as "the driver"; no I / we / my wife etc.

When did you move? Did you receive any of the previous paperwork (NtK etc)? What breach are they alleging? Did the driver do what they allege? Have you identified the driver to them in any correspondence? Are both the signs and claimant in the name of Excel - or is one VCS?

I made an edit to clarify the fact I am not sure who the driver was. Hope that its clear now.

We moved 3 years ago and have received no previous paperwork to this claim form. They claim no ticket was displayed which is possibly correct considering signs are nearly non existent. I suspect the driver may have missed that info entirely. As registered keeper I have only completed a blank AoS not provided any info about drivers or otherwise. Think the signs are both Excel, but will investigate closely today.

Thank you!

[The Rookie]

If you left the car registered at the old address it’s not their fault they have used that address effectively provide by you via the DVLA. However that’s not important right now.

Right now you need to focus on writing a defence, so start by going to moneysavingexpert.com forums, parking newbies thread and look at the sample defences. Start with the most suitable and edit to fit, you MUST understand the defence as you need to present it.

The defence will include
1/ poor visibility of signage, compare it to the ‘effectively binding’ code of practice and highlight the discrepancies.
2/ lets get photos of the signs to see if they are capable of forming a contract
3/ Distance your case from the commercial justification used in the Beavis ruling
4/ Do they have the standing to bring the action they are.

[Winfield]

If you left the car registered at the old address it’s not their fault they have used that address effectively provide by you via the DVLA. However that’s not important right now.

Right now you need to focus on writing a defence, so start by going to moneysavingexpert.com forums, parking newbies thread and look at the sample defences. Start with the most suitable and edit to fit, you MUST understand the defence as you need to present it.

The defence will include
1/ poor visibility of signage, compare it to the ‘effectively binding’ code of practice and highlight the discrepancies.
2/ lets get photos of the signs to see if they are capable of forming a contract
3/ Distance your case from the commercial justification used in the Beavis ruling
4/ Do they have the standing to bring the action they are.

Thanks for the tips Rookie... I will put something together and post it here with any personal info redacted.
A's
1. I have the Code of Practice info here https://theipc.info/resources/brandings/bra...of-Practice.pdf Does this apply to them?
2. Entrance Sign and Carpark Signs below...
3. I read the Beavis case. It seems that my defence is that the question of whether the amount charged is reasonable is not relevant, since there was not sufficiently visible signage in all areas to comply with codes of practice and therefore on the balance of probabilities a contract was never formed. Am I on the right track here?
4. What do you mean about having the standing please? Do I need to research the Ownership of the land or something? Since the signage collaborates with a major supermarket, I am sure they have the land ownership.

Finally, in your opinion do you think I stand a good chance based on the info provided or am I an underdog here?




www.imageshack.com/

I just noticed that the sign by the Pay & Display mentions Excel Parking Services, but just that they manage the carpark and to refer to the T&C's sign by the Pay and Display Machine. There isn't a T&C's sign at the Pay and Display machine. There is one in front of the store without a machine. Does, the lack of penalty warning and improper directions on the signage make a good case too?



The Claim Form states in the Particulars that: The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendent has failed to settle the outstanding liability.



The sign by the ticket machine I have since documented does not in fact detail the terms and consequences, so is this claim actually incorrectly filed?

This post has been edited by Winfield: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 - 10:42

[Winfield]

I have prepared a draft Defence, what is the best way to share it please?

I have about 10 days remaining, but still have no documentation before the Claim Form. I get no answer from EPS on the phone or email... Is there a way I can get an enforced response to receive copies of these documents quickly?

Thanks

[Lynnzer]

I have prepared a draft Defence, what is the best way to share it please?

I have about 10 days remaining, but still have no documentation before the Claim Form. I get no answer from EPS on the phone or email... Is there a way I can get an enforced response to receive copies of these documents quickly?

Thanks

Whoa......
Is there a copy of the PCN? If they haven't used the proper wording to invoke Keeper Liability then the claim can be contested. They would have to be able to identify the driver.
Doesn't matter what you post here, except for revealing the driver identity as things have progressed to a point of no return.
If you don't have it there's not much chance you'll get a copy from them in time for the defence so I'd include mention as follows.
The defendant submits that the PCN from the claimant failed to invoke Keeper Liability as required by the Protection of Freedoms Act.
When you do get a copy it most likely will have some wording that fails the test, but if not it can be explained away to the judge that you assumed they failed from advice received.
I find that a visit to the car park to take as many pictures as possible is always worthwhile. I have even made a dashcam recording while driving into a car park and parking up to show the lack of signs. You can transfer to a tablet to show in court or include a disc in your defence bundle.

[Winfield]

I have prepared a draft Defence, what is the best way to share it please?

I have about 10 days remaining, but still have no documentation before the Claim Form. I get no answer from EPS on the phone or email... Is there a way I can get an enforced response to receive copies of these documents quickly?

Thanks

Whoa......
Is there a copy of the PCN? If they haven't used the proper wording to invoke Keeper Liability then the claim can be contested. They would have to be able to identify the driver.
Doesn't matter what you post here, except for revealing the driver identity as things have progressed to a point of no return.
If you don't have it there's not much chance you'll get a copy from them in time for the defence so I'd include mention as follows.
The defendant submits that the PCN from the claimant failed to invoke Keeper Liability as required by the Protection of Freedoms Act.
When you do get a copy it most likely will have some wording that fails the test, but if not it can be explained away to the judge that you assumed they failed from advice received.
I find that a visit to the car park to take as many pictures as possible is always worthwhile. I have even made a dashcam recording while driving into a car park and parking up to show the lack of signs. You can transfer to a tablet to show in court or include a disc in your defence bundle.

Thanks Lynnzer...

Attached is the defence draft taken from a template and personalised to represent the location and company in question. I have also added an extra part referencing the improper signage also being the legal basis for accessing Keeper Details from the DVLA and without meeting the CoP for the IPC the sign up to, this constitutes a breach of my Data Protection rights.

I would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on whether that's good to keep in. It seems like a very achievable claim if this goes to a hearing and the signage is found to be substandard and then EPS will see they have more to lose than gain by proceeding..?

Attached File(s)

 DEFENCE_DRAFT.pdf ( 269.31K ) Number of downloads: 33

 

[The Rookie]

I would include some of para 12 in para 2 with respect to the abuse of process argaument.

[Winfield]

I would include some of para 12 in para 2 with respect to the abuse of process argaument.

Thanks again The Rookie! I have updated to include some of the Data Protection Breach as para. 3. Still part of the opening. With that, I would be satisfied that it's good to send. Perhaps the only addition which could be added to the text would be a claim for damages relating to the harassment following data protection act breach?

Attachments will be:
- Southampton Case
- Photos from the car park (how best to label these do you know?)
- IPC CoP Signage rules (page with reference the complete document)

If you guys think I have done enough, I will make a single final document and send it off...? I cannot tell you how grateful I am for the support. Do you think I'm in with a good chance?

Attached File(s)

 DEFENCE_DRAFT.pdf ( 268.35K ) Number of downloads: 54

 

[The Rookie]

You can't 'claim damages' by adding text into your defence, that would need you to submit (and pay for) a counterclaim, that can be a double edged sword as it will force them to a hearing (which they will fight) whereas otherwise they may choose to quietly drop the case.

Photos you share when you share evidence, they don't form part of your submitted defence, same with the CoP, it's evidence not part of your defence. You'll also be sharing your witness statement as evidence of course.
The Soton case you refer to in the defnece, you share the detail either in court or with a skeleton argument nearer the hearing.

You need to remove from of the emotion from the defence such as the 'quietly dropped' in section 2. There are a few examples of this.

In 3 I would say 'erected signs' not 'issued'.

In 14 ATA is Approved Trade Association.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 07:04

[Winfield]

You can't 'claim damages' by adding text into your defence, that would need you to submit (and pay for) a counterclaim, that can be a double edged sword as it will force them to a hearing (which they will fight) whereas otherwise they may choose to quietly drop the case.

Photos you share when you share evidence, they don't form part of your submitted defence, same with the CoP, it's evidence not part of your defence. You'll also be sharing your witness statement as evidence of course.
The Soton case you refer to in the defnece, you share the detail either in court or with a skeleton argument nearer the hearing.

You need to remove from of the emotion from the defence such as the 'quietly dropped' in section 2. There are a few examples of this.

In 3 I would say 'erected signs' not 'issued'.

In 14 ATA is Approved Trade Association.

Thanks Rookie - I have amended those points above, left the DPA breach text, but added nothing about damages relating to that point. When I am confident and do come to send the final document, I will not add attachments such as photos IPC CoP or otherwise. It does say in the MSE templates forum to append the Southampton Case doc though. In fact they say to do so at every stage so it cannot be missed. Is that a mistake or will it do no harm would you say?