32JD Failing to proceed in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign |
32JD Failing to proceed in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign |
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 13 Jan 2017 Member No.: 89,637 ![]() |
Hello, the council have rejected a formal representation.
My parent not familiar with this area, has found ones self in the lane turning right. The lorry to the left was not being helpful and the rubbish clearance vehicle behind was adding pressure. The council have said drivers must be vigilant at all times. In an ideal world yes. Any advice will be much appreciated. Many thanks. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8509/ghT9iz.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/6041/AGLSMa.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/7992/ODAHQr.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/8927/jrwceP.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7365/sgEsPT.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5669/FPLgvD.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6669/7Mxl2j.jpg This post has been edited by Royboy71: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 - 16:05 |
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 ![]() |
Reinstate all dates.
Post the representation and the rejection. Post the video (if you can't you can PM me the details). |
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 13 Jan 2017 Member No.: 89,637 ![]() |
The video is being uploaded by the council. They have told me to check back later. They are currently in the process of preparing my secure evidence
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 13 Jan 2017 Member No.: 89,637 ![]() |
Representation:
I was in unfamiliar surroundings on this day, travelling to Ealing Hospital, I have not driven down this road before and it was new to me. I did not realise or see a sign that said turn right only and thought that you could enter both lanes to go straight on at the lights. If I was aware or had seen the sign I would of been in the correct lane. This is from an email. I've typed it. Do I need to upload the original email? Thanks |
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 ![]() |
Send the PCN details to me or stamfordman if you can't get hold of it by tomorrow.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 13 Jan 2017 Member No.: 89,637 ![]() |
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 ![]() |
You can PM me the VRM and PCN number and I'll check for the video.
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 ![]() |
I've checked again and video is not available yet - it may be because of lockdown. What is deadline to make reps?
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 ![]() |
I've checked again and video is not available yet - it may be because of lockdown. What is deadline to make reps? Are there any photos GSV is 10 months old but shows a no right turn arrow. and if this is still the case it is a wrong contravention https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5271967,-...3312!8i6656 -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 13 Jan 2017 Member No.: 89,637 ![]() |
Hi, I’m not sure about the no right turn. I will go and have a look. Thanks for that. That is a helpful observation.
I've checked again and video is not available yet - it may be because of lockdown. What is deadline to make reps? I will check the notice of rejection. Thanks. Hi, I’m not sure about the no right turn. I will go and have a look. Thanks for that. That is a helpful observation. I've checked again and video is not available yet - it may be because of lockdown. What is deadline to make reps? I will check the notice of rejection. Thanks. 15 May. 28 days after the date of notice of rejection which was 17April. I've checked again and video is not available yet - it may be because of lockdown. What is deadline to make reps? Are there any photos GSV is 10 months old but shows a no right turn arrow. and if this is still the case it is a wrong contravention https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5271967,-...3312!8i6656 Looking at the PCN pic and street view. It looks like the layout has been changed since. An extra little lane looks to be squeezed in. I’ll drive by later. |
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 ![]() |
you actually have until the 18th of may
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 ![]() |
you actually have until the 18th of may +1, the 28 days are from the date of service not the date of the notice. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 13 Jan 2017 Member No.: 89,637 ![]() |
Oh, ok thanks. I haven’t been to the location yet.
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 ![]() |
Here's video - I have extracted 30 secs for best quality for display here.
I'm not sure what driver has done wrong here - seems they were in a right turn lane but drove across the junction which you are allowed to do. To enforce it would mean a segregated lane with its own right turn phase - I would have thought. The second video below does show that there is a right turn phase. ![]() ![]() This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 2 May 2020 - 13:08 |
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 ![]() |
Unless changing lanes is a contravention I agree
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 719 Joined: 19 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,615 ![]() |
The video does show a contravention, but it's by the green truck overtaking on the left of a car that's indicating left!
From what I can see this looks totally winnable, unless there's a blue turn right arrow that isn't on street view, which seems highly unlikely. |
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 ![]() |
From what I can see this looks totally winnable, unless there's a blue turn right arrow that isn't on street view, which seems highly unlikely. I think we can assume there is a blue right turn arrow that acts in concert with the right turn light. You can see in the bottom segment that there are two such arrows in the opposite direction for that phase of the lights. The key is whether having been in the right lane the manoeuvre to abort or not intend to take a right turn and move straight across the junction is a contravention on the other green light. I say no because there is only one carriageway and road markings can't dictate a contravention. Here's the entire video: https://youtu.be/iLQ-hrKAJwM Logically I suppose you contravene the right turn arrow by not obeying it when the right turn light is green. Junctions like this tend to have a green arrow light but they've gone for a big stick here. They are also sometimes phased so that the straight and right turn are phased at the same time. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 2 May 2020 - 17:09 |
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 ![]() |
Two things that need looking at for me. Can sign 609 apply to only part of the carriageway? and if yes, did the OP move to the left in time to no contravene the sign.
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 ![]() |
A quick look shows:
Unlike at uncontrolled junctions it is not appropriate to use a sign to diagram 609 (“turn left/right ahead”) at the junction itself. If appropriate, a sign to diagram 609 may be erected on the approach to the junction. Chapter 6 for traffic control is the one to look at for this. But these signs are used and there is an example like this in Ch 6: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5816661,-0....6384!8i8192 I doubt the manual will help with the carriageway issue. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 2 May 2020 - 19:15 |
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 13 Jan 2017 Member No.: 89,637 ![]() |
Thank you to you all for your input. The council have made what used to be a no right turn into a must right turn.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4381/2Al3so.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7743/9xhULQ.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4594/q8fnBC.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4823/yZyAmo.jpg This post has been edited by Royboy71: Mon, 4 May 2020 - 21:51 |
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