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PCN double yellow line
downandout
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 15:59
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PCN was issued for leaving the car on DYL for maximum of 90-120 seconds (pick laundry). Only reason for the driver to not park in the car park (which was out of sight from laundry windows) was that 2 of the toddlers (2, 3.5 yrs) were both asleep, strapped in child seats at the back. Both were also suffering from cold/flu. It was very windy/wet day (driver assures that the photographs the attendants took will confirm that it was dark/dull/wet at the time of alleged contravention code 01).

Driver felt forced to leave the car outside the laundry to keep the car/toddlers in full view. is there any recourse that can be advised?



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post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 15:59
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 16:13
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Lets see the council photos. You may be entitled to claim the loading exemption, it would depend how much laundry

But leaving kids in the car Risky


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downandout
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 16:35
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 16:13) *
Lets see the council photos. You may be entitled to claim the loading exemption, it would depend how much laundry


How can the photos be retrieved, the council only gives option to make payment or challenge? What proof would be required for loading exemption, as no receipts available etc? As said in the OP, the driver was only in shop for 90-120 seconds?
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Neil B
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 16:44
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QUOTE (downandout @ Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 16:35) *
How can the photos be retrieved, the council only gives option to make payment or challenge?

Click on those.

Can you please stop being coy with 'driver'; it's pointless. The owner is ultimately liable.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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downandout
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 17:09
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 16:44) *
QUOTE (downandout @ Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 16:35) *
How can the photos be retrieved, the council only gives option to make payment or challenge?

Click on those.



hi, tried clicking on those, no option of viewing evidence.
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cp8759
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 01:18
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PM me the PCN details and I'll see if I can locate the pics.


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ford poplar
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 04:22
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Loading exemption may not be vailid as most laundry collections are not prepaid.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 08:10
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[quote name='ford poplar' date='Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 04:22' post='1469299']
Loading exemption may not be vailid as most laundry collections are not prepaid.
[/quote

]Pre paid is not a pre condition pre ordered laundry is even mentioned specifically in one of the cases


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cp8759
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 16:55
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There's a known will / may flaw on the back of Derby City Council PCNs, it would help if we could see a copy that's not out of focus but it looks to me like the error is still there. This flaw could win on its own.


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downandout
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 09:12
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 16:55) *
There's a known will / may flaw on the back of Derby City Council PCNs, it would help if we could see a copy that's not out of focus but it looks to me like the error is still there. This flaw could win on its own.






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cp8759
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 09:16
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This:



The council cannot say that you will receive a Notice to Owner, this flaw is normally fatal to PCNs.

How bulky / heavy was the laundry?


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downandout
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 09:53
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 09:16) *
This:



The council cannot say that you will receive a Notice to Owner, this flaw is normally fatal to PCNs.

How bulky / heavy was the laundry?


average load (around 5-7kg ish).

So it there room to challenge on NTO comment on PCN?
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cp8759
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:44
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You can challenge on the PCN flaw but the council will undoubtedly reject, you would then have to appeal to the tribunal with the full amount in play, but at the tribunal you should win. Here's a draft you can send together with a copy of this http://bit.ly/2DmNq7N

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Dear Sir or Madam,

I challenge liability to pay the penalty on the basis of a procedural impropriety. The PCN asserts that if no paying is made, a Notice to Owner will be issued, the council is not permitted to say this. The regulations only allow the PCN to say that the council may issue a Notice to Owner, I refer you to the recent tribunal decision in Anthony Hall v Kent County Council (with Tunbridge Wells BC) (case reference JU-00042-1810).

In light of this, I look forward to receiving confirmation that the PCN has been cancelled.


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hcandersen
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:58
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How about telling the story before the motorist tells the authority their view of the law wih inevitable consequences.

So OP, as you cannot wash laundry in a couple of minutes and as you say it was being collected, then surely..

At **** on **** I delivered laundry comprising **** to the laundrette at ****. This is approx. *** metres from the location where the PCN was later served. I made arrangements to collect the items/the items would be available for collection at any time after ****.

I stopped at the location at **** and immediately went inside to collect the items as I was permitted to do, there being no loading restrictions in effect. I returned after no more than *** minutes.

Would be a start.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:58
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DancingDad
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 11:51
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I'm with HCA on this, tell the tale of the exemption that is in play before delving into technical challenges, especially ones that should win but no guarantees on that.

Prsonally I would add that the kids were in the car (ages???) and that you could not carry a (relatively) heavy and bulky load of laundry while holding them.
And include receipts or a description of what it was...7-9KGs is not a lot but can be quite bulky


I would save the technical bits until Notice to Owner stage as an add on....while I was investigating the PCN and regulations I note that.....
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cp8759
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 14:49
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I don't disagree with leading on the loading angle.


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downandout
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 15:32
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right then guys, i will proceed with loading as a leading issue, with a hint of NTO. Will keep you posted.
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downandout
post Sun, 31 Mar 2019 - 22:20
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Regarding the above PCN challenge, i submitted this online on 15/03/19, the confirmation note said that the response will be provided within 10 working days. from my observation, the 10 days were up on Friday 29/03/19. Ofcourse i will continue to wait however is this possible grounds for rejecting PCN due to them not abiding by their own procedure?
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 1 Apr 2019 - 11:27
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The PCN states " YOU" will receive a NTO It should say the owner of the vehicle. YOU if not the owner have no liability


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cp8759
post Mon, 1 Apr 2019 - 17:18
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QUOTE (downandout @ Sun, 31 Mar 2019 - 23:20) *
Regarding the above PCN challenge, i submitted this online on 15/03/19, the confirmation note said that the response will be provided within 10 working days. from my observation, the 10 days were up on Friday 29/03/19. Ofcourse i will continue to wait however is this possible grounds for rejecting PCN due to them not abiding by their own procedure?

Not really, but if they delay beyond 70 / 80 days you can claim procedural unfairness.


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