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ProfessorX
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 06:39
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Hi guys, please promise to at least read this before kicking me like a dog in the street smile.gif.

My name is Leo Musami, as you can see, I joined the forum in July 2017. I was working as a senior project manager last year and in July 2019, I lost my little sister and this kicked off a chain of events resulted in me quiting my near 100k job, to focussing sorely on helping people with parking tickets (great timing and life decision I know).

I took some inspiration from what Joshua Browder did, however, I am planning to make it possible to fully automate council appeals. So far I have built a system where my app can check the progress of appeals automatically.

I have been helping family members and friends fight tickets with the help of forums and research, so when I started my company last year to focus on this full time, I started also developing my own apps for writing appeal letters for private and council tickets.

I am not going to post any links unless one of the mods tells me I can.
So this post is to ask for permission if I can post links to the app and ask for help with reviewing it and to see if it works.

I am currently going through all the successful appeals (18,234) from 2019 at London Tribunal to build a list of good defences per contravention. which will be included in the app.
So can a mod confirm if i can post a link and if not, I will delete the post.

Thank you again for reading, I will now just wait smile.gif

This post has been edited by ProfessorX: Fri, 15 May 2020 - 06:42
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post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 06:39
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hcandersen
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 09:05
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I'm certain this would be moved to another of our forums if any is applicable.

But your approach is reminiscent of some posts I see here and ignores fundamental aspects of the enforcement and adjudication processes and seriously risks costing users their discounts and time.

1. Authorities pay little regard to reps which claim to cite and rely upon adjudication decisions. Fact.
2. Your approach would therefore have the likely effect of taking owners to adjudication with an all or nothing outcome even in hopeless cases - remember owners are often driven by motive and intentions rather than an objective view of the law;
3. One adjudicator's decision is not binding on another;
4. The fact that you have not even referred to ETA's Key Cases which, if anything does, represent a consensus view among adjudicators;
5. Each case turns on its own facts and you have no access to the these via adjudication decisions other than to the very limited and often summary references which appear in decisions.

Frankly, IMO you'd be better off simply looking at statistical data which can be obtained from ETA's website, and I suspect TPT's, which is the year-by-year breakdown of each authority's 'performance' e.g. how many appeals, witness etc. statements, successes, losses, Did Not Contest(I always find this one interesting) etc.

So without even knowing the facts of a case you could give an overall likelihood based on actual data by category of contravention e.g. parking, moving traffic etc. of whether authorities successfully pursue NORs or DNC or whatever. This could be your base position. Sadly it's not possible to plot a moving annual picture because the data are published yearly. You could then overlay this with the facts of each case, perhaps weighted by cross-referencing to location.

But I'm doing your work for you now!

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 15 May 2020 - 09:48
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 09:31
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There was quite a bit of press a couple of years ago about a student who had developed an app to do just this. We ended up seeing some of the representations and appeals. They were hopeless often referring to the wrong regulations and demanding information that they have no right to.

What's next an app to get you of drug dealing.

Sorry for me templates just do not work


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ProfessorX
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 10:01
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To: @Pastmybest, hcaandersen

Thank you, yes I am aware of the Do Not Pay app that Joshua Browder created and ultimately where it failed. I started off with the key cases to understand where there is consensus, then I started researching each contravention to see how each is defined and when there is no contravention, then I provided a compliance checklist to see if the statutory wording has the same meaning. The app isn't based on a template but tailored to each individual.

So yes, each case has its own facts plus there is a minimum standard for each step of enforcement that the authority must meet. The app is not yet perfect I know.

I have the cases from the tribunal from the whole of 2019 covering all the different outcomes, I am happy to share the findings in their own right. Some interesting findings already is that some authorities are notorious for not contesting, not sending pcn's, not providing case summaries etc. I will share that later today.

Attached is 2981 successful appeals from ETA in 2019 (file reduced in size to fit restrictions). File could not be uploaded, link here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/11Gi9F9fwlH...iew?usp=sharing

So I totally agree that there is some work to do, I have probably wasted 6 months of my life if it comes to nothing or made life easier for some people.

I am very happy to share what I have obtained even if I don't get the reviews up.

Please let me know.

This post has been edited by ProfessorX: Fri, 15 May 2020 - 10:07
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hcandersen
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 10:10
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Some interesting findings already is that some authorities are notorious for not contesting, not sending pcn's, not providing case summaries etc

Which is what I said!!

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...%20final_0.xlsx

And unfortunately, putting apps in the hands of certain people lends support to the adage:

A man who represents himself, has a fool for a client.

C'est la vie.
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ProfessorX
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 10:24
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 15 May 2020 - 10:10) *
Some interesting findings already is that some authorities are notorious for not contesting, not sending pcn's, not providing case summaries etc

Which is what I said!!

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...%20final_0.xlsx

And unfortunately, putting apps in the hands of certain people lends support to the adage:

A man who represents himself, has a fool for a client.

C'est la vie.


Yes spot on, I was just emphasising that your statements were correct. To be honest, some people like my aunty who received 4 pcn's from Lewisham when she was in hospital wouldn't know what to do and apps are not for everyone but I think its worth a try. And I lost a car myself to bailiffs, but I would have used an app to at least guide me through the process.

But as promised, unless authorised, I won't post any links smile.gif

Thanks
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 11:44
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QUOTE (ProfessorX @ Fri, 15 May 2020 - 11:24) *
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 15 May 2020 - 10:10) *
Some interesting findings already is that some authorities are notorious for not contesting, not sending pcn's, not providing case summaries etc

Which is what I said!!

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...%20final_0.xlsx

And unfortunately, putting apps in the hands of certain people lends support to the adage:

A man who represents himself, has a fool for a client.

C'est la vie.


Yes spot on, I was just emphasising that your statements were correct. To be honest, some people like my aunty who received 4 pcn's from Lewisham when she was in hospital wouldn't know what to do and apps are not for everyone but I think its worth a try. And I lost a car myself to bailiffs, but I would have used an app to at least guide me through the process.

But as promised, unless authorised, I won't post any links smile.gif

Thanks


If you want to direct the mods and ask their view/permission hit report at the bottom of your post and ask them directly


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ProfessorX
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 12:04
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 15 May 2020 - 12:44) *
QUOTE (ProfessorX @ Fri, 15 May 2020 - 11:24) *
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 15 May 2020 - 10:10) *
Some interesting findings already is that some authorities are notorious for not contesting, not sending pcn's, not providing case summaries etc

Which is what I said!!

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...%20final_0.xlsx

And unfortunately, putting apps in the hands of certain people lends support to the adage:

A man who represents himself, has a fool for a client.

C'est la vie.


Yes spot on, I was just emphasising that your statements were correct. To be honest, some people like my aunty who received 4 pcn's from Lewisham when she was in hospital wouldn't know what to do and apps are not for everyone but I think its worth a try. And I lost a car myself to bailiffs, but I would have used an app to at least guide me through the process.

But as promised, unless authorised, I won't post any links smile.gif

Thanks


If you want to direct the mods and ask their view/permission hit report at the bottom of your post and ask them directly


Ah thank you for advising, yes I have reported myself to the mods smile.gif
I have also included a copy of an appeal I sent to Hackney recently. I removed the pictures of personal information.
Please note that I am still working on it so I can fix any issues and hence the request for help.
Plus I wouldn't charge anyone on the forum to use it.

Leo
Attached File(s)
Attached File  AA12BCD___ZZ123456_Hackney_Council.pdf ( 208.7K ) Number of downloads: 55
 
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 14:56
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Thanks for your offer of free use of your appeal. I will not be taking it up and I am sorry to say I would strongly advise anyone else that sees it to disregard it.

It is addressed to the council so must be representations by now. So what have they done wrong with the notice of rejection? Nothing because you cannot as yet have one. What you may have is a rejection of informal challenge. If so the law does not require any response at all to that so they cannot commit PI regardless.

If you have an argument re the position of the signage, you must evidence this inadequacy, That you did not see it is not enough

Perhaps if you post the council evidence we can help you


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ProfessorX
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 19:00
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 15 May 2020 - 15:56) *
Thanks for your offer of free use of your appeal. I will not be taking it up and I am sorry to say I would strongly advise anyone else that sees it to disregard it.

It is addressed to the council so must be representations by now. So what have they done wrong with the notice of rejection? Nothing because you cannot as yet have one. What you may have is a rejection of informal challenge. If so the law does not require any response at all to that so they cannot commit PI regardless.

If you have an argument re the position of the signage, you must evidence this inadequacy, That you did not see it is not enough

Perhaps if you post the council evidence we can help you

smile.gif You don't need any help my friend. Its me who's asking. Please no more public lashings smile.gif.
I have uploaded a copy of the docs here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ScioIrnXA...jKP6SR17TT8RyQn

I noticed that the notice of rejection stated that the 28 days starts from date served (delivered), this does not mean the same thing.
As for the signage, well the summary is included in the summary section but ultimately.

The council put a note saying work was planned on the car, the suspension sign was not next to the vehicle, and yet the driver is expected to see it.

Thanks
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 19:59
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You were parked just in front of where the blue car is in the GSV

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5442883,-...6384!8i8192


You can see the signpost just beyond that carried the suspension sign. So inadequate signage is not likely to get you far.

It is a permit bay, do you have a permit? if so the statement that you are required to check your vehicle every day is rubbish see

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2015/713.html

The council should not mis state the law in order to reject a representation see 2160311942

and as per the term delivered being used see 218033612A (I wrote the appeal for that one)

You are making your appeal under regulation 7 of the 2007 appeals regs no need for all the rest and it is addressed to London tribunals




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ProfessorX
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 20:33
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 15 May 2020 - 20:59) *
You were parked just in front of where the blue car is in the GSV

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5442883,-...6384!8i8192


You can see the signpost just beyond that carried the suspension sign. So inadequate signage is not likely to get you far.

It is a permit bay, do you have a permit? if so the statement that you are required to check your vehicle every day is rubbish see

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2015/713.html

The council should not mis state the law in order to reject a representation see 2160311942

and as per the term delivered being used see 218033612A (I wrote the appeal for that one).

You are making your appeal under regulation 7 of the 2007 appeals regs no need for all the rest and it is addressed to London tribunals


Yes I have a permit, I was allowed to park there accordingly, however the issue is always that the night before, I parked where i normally park and didnt pay much attention to the suspension unless it was clear and obvious.

Ok, I will amend the appeal, thank you for taking time to review. Highly appreciated, I will update the letter in the morning.
If the council have made an administrative error like in your case (218033612A), is there any point in raising other points?
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 15 May 2020 - 20:43
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QUOTE (ProfessorX @ Fri, 15 May 2020 - 21:33) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 15 May 2020 - 20:59) *
You were parked just in front of where the blue car is in the GSV

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5442883,-...6384!8i8192


You can see the signpost just beyond that carried the suspension sign. So inadequate signage is not likely to get you far.

It is a permit bay, do you have a permit? if so the statement that you are required to check your vehicle every day is rubbish see

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2015/713.html

The council should not mis state the law in order to reject a representation see 2160311942

and as per the term delivered being used see 218033612A (I wrote the appeal for that one).

You are making your appeal under regulation 7 of the 2007 appeals regs no need for all the rest and it is addressed to London tribunals


Yes I have a permit, I was allowed to park there accordingly, however the issue is always that the night before, I parked where i normally park and didnt pay much attention to the suspension unless it was clear and obvious.

Ok, I will amend the appeal, thank you for taking time to review. Highly appreciated, I will update the letter in the morning.
If the council have made an administrative error like in your case (218033612A), is there any point in raising other points?


Yes go with both, remember adjudicators are not bound by each other, though the high court does bind them indeed an adjudicator may allow an appeal one day and refuse one that you might think identical the next. write your own appeal and quote the cases as persuasive


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