[NIP Wizard] NIP 41 in a 30, certainly was not going that fast. Options

[Korting]

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - November 2018
Date of the NIP: - 1 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 2 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Leverton Road, Retford
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was in Leverton Road on that date and at that time, i went past one of those speed signs which flashed Happy 29. I continued along that road at the same speed perhaps a little faster, I saw the van, looked down and my speedo still said 30. Its rear doors were facing me. A bit further along from the van was a NSL sign, I waited until I had passed the sign and then accelerated to around 50. The NIP stated 41 in a 30. I do not believe I was doing anywhere near 41.

Of course I cannot prove I was doing around 30 and even if I could, the likelihood is that I'll get a conviction based on the fact that neither the vehicles speedometer, nor a satnav nor any device I might have in the car is (I dont have anything) is not an approved device whereas their equipment is.

I need to go back there next week, now I know the van could be there, I'll drive even slower, say 15MPH as I do not trust the Police or their equipment.

Do they have to have a Police officer carrying out the surveillance or can it be civilians, if the former, how does one know that a Police Officer was actually in the van.



NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.
  
  You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 08:42:17 +0000

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[Jlc]

First step is to ask for a photo to assist in the identification of the driver. You still have to nominate the driver within 28 days though.

They will usually provide something that may help (or not!).

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 08:57

[AntonyMMM]

Do they have to have a Police officer carrying out the surveillance or can it be civilians, if the former, how does one know that a Police Officer was actually in the van.

It can be a civilian - and why would a police officer have to be in the van ?

First step should be to ask for any photos to "aid identification of the driver", which they will usually provide. That will give you a better idea of exactly where you were when the measurement was taken.

Asking for photos doesn't stop the 28 day clock for naming the driver though.

[Korting]

I've emailed Nott Police twice using the email address they suggested: camera.enquiries@nottinghamshire.pnn.police.uk but have not had the courtesy of a response, let alone the photographs.

I wonder why? Could it be that they know the car wasn't going at the speed the allege and that they just rely on us folding at the first hurdle.

[Logician]

I've emailed Nott Police twice using the email address they suggested: camera.enquiries@nottinghamshire.pnn.police.uk but have not had the courtesy of a response, let alone the photographs. I wonder why? Could it be that they know the car wasn't going at the speed the allege and that they just rely on us folding at the first hurdle.

Seems very unlikely, even at the most cynical level, they hardly need to invent speeders, there are plenty genuine ones about.

[peterguk]

I've emailed Nott Police twice using the email address they suggested: camera.enquiries@nottinghamshire.pnn.police.uk but have not had the courtesy of a response, let alone the photographs.

Although they normally do, the police are under no obligation to supply any photographs at this time.

As stated in an earlier post, remember to name yourself as the driver within 28 days whether the photos arrive or not. If you fail to do so you'll be facing a more serious charge of FtF.

[Jlc]

Have you tried calling them? I find it gets a more interactive response than email.

[Korting]

I've emailed Nott Police twice using the email address they suggested: camera.enquiries@nottinghamshire.pnn.police.uk but have not had the courtesy of a response, let alone the photographs.

Although they normally do, the police are under no obligation to supply any photographs at this time.

As stated in an earlier post, remember to name yourself as the driver within 28 days whether the photos arrive or not. If you fail to do so you'll be facing a more serious charge of FtF.

I know they're not obliged to, but a simple response to say so would be nice and courteous.

I will name myself dont worry about that.

I'm concerned that I'm being conned.

[peterguk]

I'm concerned that I'm being conned.

Catching speeders is like shooting fish. There's no need to con anyone.

[Jlc]

I find it's easier if they are in a barrel.

[The Rookie]

Maybe their reply went to your spam folder?

Phone them, much easier and you get a reply, remember it’s to help confirm the driver ID, nothing more and nothing less. If you worded the email wrong that may explain it as well.

[Logician]

Dear Motoring Criminal

We haven't got all day to spend photoshopping pictures for you, take this to court and we will do a special one for you and a self-appointed expert, who might just happen to be one of our retired colleagues, will testify that our equipment and procedures are 100% reliable. He charges a lot for this service, and his expenses are considerable after he takes us all out in the evening, but the court may give you time to pay. Go on loser, make our day!

By the way troublemaker, we have noted your details, and next time your speed will double. Look at it this way, you may not have been speeding this time, but it makes up for all the other times you were and got away with it.

TO PROTECT AND SERVE

[Korting]

Dear Motoring Criminal

We haven't got all day to spend photoshopping pictures for you, take this to court and we will do a special one for you and a self-appointed expert, who might just happen to be one of our retired colleagues, will testify that our equipment and procedures are 100% reliable. He charges a lot for this service, and his expenses are considerable after he takes us all out in the evening, but the court may give you time to pay. Go on loser, make our day!

By the way troublemaker, we have noted your details, and next time your speed will double. Look at it this way, you may not have been speeding this time, but it makes up for all the other times you were and got away with it.

TO PROTECT AND SERVE

Sounds about right.

This post has been edited by Korting: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 17:17

[notmeatloaf]

You need to approach this the right way because your best option is for the police to drop it rather than contest it in court.

The police are not trying to con you, as has been said they have plenty of actual speeders without the risk of bad publicity and disciplinary action for making up offences.

The guns are also highly accurate in the sense they won't measure 30mph as 41mph.

However, they can measure the wrong vehicle. Simply, this can be because the gun is misaligned, or that the gun is "dumb" and has to work out what is being targeted from the many reflections it gets. Rarely it gets the wrong target or reads a reflection from a larger vehicle.

The photos may show something obvious. Otherwise, you can ask the police politely, without alleging they are making it up, to review the video. We are told that if you watch these videos all day long it is easy to tell whether the vehicle is speeding or not. If they agree with you they may well quietly drop it.

If they don't you can take it to court. If you are certain you weren't speeding you can get the video disclosed and will be guaranteed of a win. However, you will likely need to pay first for expert analysis, the court may feel an analysis from you is unreliable. You also of course risk £620 costs, magistrates courts are not always amazing at getting complex cases right.

None of us here have any affection for camera offices but you need to butter them up a bit, because they have discretion to cancel the ticket with minimal work on your part.

"Speed kills", "always obey speed limits", "upset with myself at the idea I might have put so many childrens and kittens at risk", "would be so grateful if you could review the video because I am quite certain I wouldn't have been so reckless to slightly exceed the limit", etc.

[southpaw82]

However, you will likely need to pay first for expert analysis, the court may feel an analysis from you is unreliable.

He would need an expert - he can’t give expert evidence in his own case, even if he was an expert.

[scottishpoet]

You fast do you think you were going?

[notmeatloaf]

However, you will likely need to pay first for expert analysis, the court may feel an analysis from you is unreliable.

He would need an expert - he can’t give expert evidence in his own case, even if he was an expert.

If the video showed something obviously wrong, such as the speed measured in the wrong direction, then the CPS could be persuaded to drop it. But yes, if a site survey and s=d/t type evidence was to be presented an expert would need to present the evidence.

[cp8759]

However, you will likely need to pay first for expert analysis, the court may feel an analysis from you is unreliable.

He would need an expert - he can’t give expert evidence in his own case, even if he was an expert.

If he's a retired colleague, he couldn't have been involved in the case, by virtue of being retired.

[southpaw82]

However, you will likely need to pay first for expert analysis, the court may feel an analysis from you is unreliable.

He would need an expert - he can’t give expert evidence in his own case, even if he was an expert.

If he's a retired colleague, he couldn't have been involved in the case, by virtue of being retired.

Pardon?

[Korting]

You fast do you think you were going?

About 30, maybe 35 though unlikely.

That road is quite busy, I passed one of those speed beacons which lit up green 28MPH as I passed, I then saw the van, looked down at my speedometer and it was reading around 30MPH.