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NIP for Dangerous Driving
NeedHelp2018
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 12:07
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Hi

So on Monday afternoon I was travelling home from work along a country lane a know very well (60mph limit).
A group of cars in front of me were travelling quite slowly (about 45 MPH), so after checking the opposite carriageway was clear I overtook the group of cars and sped up to 60mph. Unfortunately just as I was completing my overtake maneuver a marked police car came around the corner, and I pulled back in. At no point did I cross the solid white line.
The marked police car turned around, put on his blues and pulled me over. He insists that he had to slam on his brakes to avoid a head on crash and so issued me with a NIP for Dangerous Driving. He interviewed me at the side of the road with is body camera switched on.
Whilst I admit it was an error of judgement to perform the overtake at that point, I honestly thought that if was safe when I started the maneuver .

So my question is, how likely am I to get a ban. If I am banned this will probably mean I will lose my job as I wont have any feasible way to get to work (its a 4 hour journey each way via public transport).

So you think I have any chance of getting thsi charge downgraded to Careless Driving?

Incidentally I have no points on my licence or any previous convictions.

Thanks

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post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 12:07
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BaggieBoy
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 12:18
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Was there in car video of the incident?
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Ukayzfinest
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 12:22
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If there’s no video than it’s his word against yours in court , and we alll know how that will go .
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Jlc
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 12:37
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QUOTE (NeedHelp2018 @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 13:07) *
So my question is, how likely am I to get a ban. If I am banned this will probably mean I will lose my job as I wont have any feasible way to get to work (its a 4 hour journey each way via public transport).

So you think I have any chance of getting thsi charge downgraded to Careless Driving?

I presume you haven't received anything in the post yet?

Although he mentioned dangerous driving they may not actually pursue that charge. Indeed, careless driving is a statutory alternative.

If they do decide to pursue dangerous driving then you should consider professional assistance - if convicted, there would be a ban of at least 1 year. (There also the possibility of a custodial sentence but it would be extremely unlikely in the circumstances described)

QUOTE (Ukayzfinest @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 13:22) *
If there’s no video than it’s his word against yours in court , and we alll know how that will go .

The witness will present what happened. The court can draw their own conclusions.

Even PC's have known to have been 'mistaken' - they do not lie of course.

QUOTE (NeedHelp2018 @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 13:07) *
Unfortunately just as I was completing my overtake maneuver a marked police car came around the corner, and I pulled back in. At no point did I cross the solid white line.

Can we see a GSV of the location? If you could not complete the overtake safely (and before the (blind?) corner) then it sounds at least careless.

Careless being driving below the standard expected of a safe and competent driver. (Dangerous being far below)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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NeedHelp2018
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 12:39
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I do not believe there was any video evidence (or at least he didn't offer to show me).

I have not received anything in the post yet - I just have the green NIP slip he gave me on Monday.

Thanks for all the advise so far.
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NeedHelp2018
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 12:53
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Added attachments showing Google Map and Google Street View.
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Redivi
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 12:57
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The entrance to that garden centre aggravates the situation
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Logician
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 13:35
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If this was in England/Wales it very likely to be charged as careless not dangerous, to keep it in the magistrates' court, amongst other reasons. You have to try really hard to get up to the dangerous driving level in England, quite different in Scotland.


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NeedHelp2018
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 13:36
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I suspect it doesn't, but does it help that the Garden Center was closed at the time I went past?

Yes this was in England (Leicestershire).

This post has been edited by NeedHelp2018: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 13:37
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NewJudge
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 14:39
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QUOTE (NeedHelp2018 @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 13:07) *
If I am banned this will probably mean I will lose my job as I wont have any feasible way to get to work (its a 4 hour journey each way via public transport).

Just so that you know, when the court is considering disqualifying you for a single offence (as they might in this case) you have no right to argue that "exceptional hardship" will follow from the ban. That argument is only available when facing a ban for "totting up". However the court will listen to what you say and you may be able to sway them.

As mentioned, if the charge is Dangerous Driving then a mandatory ban of at least twelve months must be imposed (followed by an extended re-test before you can drive again). I agree with others, though, who say that the incident as you describe it looks more likely to attract a Careless Driving allegation.
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NeedHelp2018
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 18:36
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Thanks for all the really good replies.

I'll keep you all updated with what happens next.

Cheers.
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NeedHelp2018
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 09:37
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Update:
So I've had a letter in the post this morning saying I've been charged with
"Drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road/in a public place without due care and attention". (At least it's not for Dangerous Driving).
I'm definitely going to plead guilty. Am I better pleading guilty online, via post or in person at court?
Also I've spotted something on the transcript of the roadside interview. It says I was traveling in excess of 60mph when it happened, I definitely remember saying I was not speeding as the cars I overtook were going very slowly.
Can I/should I contest that?
Can I contest this if I plead guilty online or by post?

Any words of wisdom would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 09:42
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Presumably you have a Single Justice Procedure Notice? A letter could mean anything.

If its a SJPN then you either have to request court or submit a written response in mitigation with your guilty plea, we would normally suggest the latter.

If submitting a written response you cannot contest anything presented (in excess of 60 is meaningless, it could be 61mph!), you can only do that in court. What you said isn't relevant if the officer believes you were exceeding 60mph, its unlikely to make any difference to sentencing.



--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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NeedHelp2018
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 09:55
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I've attached the front page of the letter I've been sent.
So for now I'll ignore the alleged speeding statement, but I'm panicking now that I might still get a ban.
The letter states that if I plead guilty online or by post you usually get a 33% discount on any fine.
Obviously if I go to court I won't get the discount but I could argue my case so that I could potentially avoid a ban, or do I plead guilty online to get a lower fine and hope the gods are on my side that they don't ban me.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 10:21
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Its an SJPN.

If the single justice considers a ban MAY be appropriate it will be transferred to a court for a full hearing where you can attend.

Pleading guilty at the first opportunity WILL give a 33% discount off the fine, that would apply even if you asked for it to be heard in court and not by the single justice, you will not (cannot, should not) be disadvantaged if you do that. You only lose the discount if you plead not guilty and take it further into the process, but changing plea before the actual trial and you still get a 25% discount (so you only loose 8%).


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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NeedHelp2018
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 10:30
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Ok, that's sense about the discount.

I've been doing a little digging around sentencing guidelines and it seems the sentence will be based on culpability and harm.

Am I right in thinking it will be high culpability due to aggressive driving (the overtake) and low harm as I didn't actually harm anyone?
Or is this classed as high harm too as the officer has stated he needed to brake to avoid me?

I've also attached the full transcript of the roadside interview.

Any comments would be appreciated.

This post has been edited by NeedHelp2018: Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 11:40
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NeedHelp2018
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 12:12
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Sorry can't add the other 2 pages as I've run out of space. I can't figure out how to remove the 2 Google maps images I added in an earlier post.
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Ocelot
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 13:10
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I like the way they spell 'absolutely' in the witness statement.

Have you received anything else which indicates their intentions, such as the aforementioned SJPN or a Court summons?
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NeedHelp2018
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 13:25
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All I'm being asked to do at the moment is read the charge details and police report, and then make a guilty or not guilty plea.
They've included all the forms I need to fill in do do this by post, including a statement of assets and other financial circumstances.

I'd really like some advice about what constitutes "harm" in the sentencing guidelines for this offensive. Does it refer to harm that I actually caused or is it what I could have caused? I'm trying to work out if this is classed as a Category 1 offence (a ban could be considered) or Category 2 offence (5 - 6 points).
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The Rookie
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 14:08
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Harm would be at least physical contact or causing someone else to hit something, as no-one or any metal was ‘harmed’ I can’t see a bench treating it as harm.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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