Contravention 62 - Tower Hamlets |
Helping the motorist get justice 
Helping the motorist get justice
Contravention 62 - Tower Hamlets |
 Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 04:56
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Member No.: 51,050  |
Hi all,
I recently got a pcn with the above code, however where my vehicle was parked there was no footpath or kerb there. I parked in between 2 loading bays on a double yellow line and in one of the photos you can see a van parked in front of my car in the loading bay. The weird thing is there is double yellow lines on both sides where my car was parked (no kerb markings) if i parked on the other double yellow line i would have caused obstruction to on coming vehicles i have a disabled badge which was present on the dash while the cctv gave me this pcn. Do i have any grounds of appeal? any help much appreciated. |
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 04:56
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 06:11
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#2
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Have a look at this one --looks like same spot but different contravention:-
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...street&st=0 The contravention looks incorrect if these are bays. If this is a loading bay and you have a BB then you could claim an exemption under under the power of Regulation 8 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (England) Regulations 2000.A blue badge holder can park up to 3 hours on a yellow line placed adjacent to a “No Loading” restriction so long as the purpose for their parking is not loading or unloading. Lastly how could a camera spot a BB. Mick |
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 08:28
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Member No.: 51,050 |
It's the same road but different part I spoke with a police support officer yesterday he told me there is no signage to tell you, you can't park there with a BB appeal against it but on what ground
True they won't know |
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 09:07
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#4
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
Procedural impropriety but you need Traffic Management Order first in pdf with all schedules and amendments before using Regulation 8.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/68...gulation/8/made 8. (1) This regulation applies to an order made under section 1, 6, 9, 35, 45 or 46 of the 1984 Act which includes a provision which– This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 09:09 -------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 09:34
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#5
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 5,729 Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Member No.: 25,447 |
Can you identify where you parked and post up a Google Street View link?
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 10:30
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Member No.: 51,050 |
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.516304,-0...#33;6m1!1e1
i parked in the worn out double yellow lines How would i get that information hippocrates |
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 10:59
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
council: parking and/or highways depts.
-------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 11:02
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Member No.: 51,050 |
do i request it from the council or can i find it on their website
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 11:04
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
former.
-------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 15:08
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Member No.: 51,050 |
I called LBTH they told me they use the one from legislation.gov.uk I should go there am confused help
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 16:53
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 5,729 Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Member No.: 25,447 |
QUOTE (manur @ Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 16:08)  I called LBTH they told me they use the one from legislation.gov.uk I should go there am confused help What exactly did you ask for? I believe Hippocrates means the Traffic Order, with all schedules and amendments, that creates the waiting restrictions, loading bays and parking bays on Osborn Street, E1. Ask LBTH for it. But my experience is that you won't get, at least not before adjudication. But ask anyway and keep a record. However since you say you were not parked in the loading bay, to my mind the issue is much more clear cut. The contravention simply did not occur. You were parked on the carriageway by a stretch of double yellow lines and there does not appear to be any loading restriction posted. So by virtue of the display of a valid Blue Badge you were entitled to a minimum of three hours exemption from the waiting restriction indicated by the DYLs. The council seem to be trying to claim that the carriageway between the two bays is pavement. This is clearly not true due to the presence of the inner set of DYLs which delineate the edge of the carriageway. The outer set is surplus paint spilled on the road. And also because the cobblestones in the bays are continuous across the DYL area. In fact this looks like it is a (possibly defunct) vehicle crossover, in which case there should be no yellow lines. But there are, so you are entitled to park there because you have an exemption. If the council had burned off the inner set then they might have a stronger case, but they didn't. Not to mention that using CCTV where a BB exemption might apply rides roughshod over the Secretary of State's guidelines. But this is Tower Hamlets. You only have to answer to the contravention alleged, not what the council should or could have alleged. Ask to view the video but make sure you specify a Council office of your choice, other than than the Town Hall at Mulberry Place and a time of your choosing. My advice, at the moment, is to challenge all the way to adjudication. This post has been edited by Enceladus: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 17:05 |
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 18:19
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Member No.: 51,050 |
Should I request to see the footage by calling them or e-mailing them because am not to confident in what they say over the phone, also when I make representation do I put Procedural impropriety or contravention did not occur?
Many thanks for your help guys |
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 21:53
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 5,729 Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Member No.: 25,447 |
QUOTE (manur @ Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 19:19) Should I request to see the footage by calling them or e-mailing them because am not to confident in what they say over the phone, also when I make representation do I put Procedural impropriety or contravention did not occur? It's on the PCN. It says you can make the request by email or post a letter. Addresses are provided. There is no mention of phone. So try email, you should get an automated receipt. If you don't get one then assume it has not got through. Your PCN is dated and allegedly posted on Tuesday 17th June. Deemed served today Thursday 19th = day 1 of the 21 & 28 day periods. So you have a bit of time. |
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Thu, 19 Jun 2014 - 22:17
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
The legislation clearly states they must "comply" with your request. This PCN does not state that.
-------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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Fri, 20 Jun 2014 - 02:51
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Member No.: 51,050 |
i remember i requested to view the cctv footage at their offices but they sent me a cd of the footage. Also when i go to see the footage what do i look out for?
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Fri, 20 Jun 2014 - 06:46
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Member No.: 51,050 |
For a previous alleged offence
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Fri, 20 Jun 2014 - 19:29
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 348 Joined: 30 Apr 2005 Member No.: 2,852 |
I can see what's happened there. The main carriageway was originally Tegula concrete blocks, that was replaced with asphalt a few years ago and they have remarked the double yellows on that, ignoring the original lines between the two bays shown.
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Sun, 22 Jun 2014 - 05:04
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Member No.: 51,050 |
does that mean am in the wrong???
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Sun, 22 Jun 2014 - 08:27
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 5,729 Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Member No.: 25,447 |
You said in your original post that there were yellow lines on both sides of your car.
Is that true? And does the DVD show that? |
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Sun, 22 Jun 2014 - 13:29
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Member No.: 51,050 |
Yeah I went and checked on Friday that it has got double yellow on both sides, but I have not seen no dvd
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