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Box Junction Edgware Bus Station (Barnet Council PCN)
bella(trying to ...
post Sun, 15 Mar 2020 - 20:25
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Hi again Guys,

This is our new dilemma.....Box Junction on Edgware high street adjacent to the tube station taxi rank (tube drop off and turn around & Edgware bus station)

I know there's another resent post about this area that Mr Mustard has been looking into, and we've been watching, as we have fallen foul of this peculiar strange box Junction also.

So....I've started my own thread as our video adds some further info on the area and the activity of the traffic flow.

In the video attached we are the white vehicle. the bus station and tube/taxi area is on the right of the image and there's a right hand turn lane in the middle of both of the Yellow Box "Junction"

There is also a set of traffic lights up ahead of the North bound flowing traffic which is a pedestrian crossing but this is not visible to the driver when 1st entering the YB.

https://imgur.com/4rHXhFc PCN pg1
https://imgur.com/0UMXw4U PCN pg2
https://imgur.com/wZJoqna PCN pg3
https://imgur.com/zzwO1p0 PCN pg4
https://imgur.com/LnMetz6 PCN pg5

https://imgur.com/GitUUPZ still image 1

https://imgur.com/j0Q9Mdc Still image 2

https://imgur.com/ldmhLsW Still image 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sZq8IMGpM8...eature=youtu.be Video footage

You'll also note that the bus turning left (south bound of the frame) gets itself caught in the adjacent YBox.

Hopefully by starting a new thread about this area might help bring about a discussion if not a warning about Edgware Bus station YBox "Junction" as I think this is cash cow area for Barnet.

I'll be interested in your views and opinions.

This post has been edited by bella(trying to work): Sun, 15 Mar 2020 - 20:32
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post Sun, 15 Mar 2020 - 20:25
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cp8759
post Sun, 19 Jul 2020 - 13:33
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QUOTE (bella(trying to work) @ Fri, 17 Jul 2020 - 11:41) *
How many times can they request a postponement in practice?

Is there anything else we need to do or just wait for 29th July 2020?

Due to coronavirus and the resulting pressure on local authorities, the tribunal is likely to be lenient with council requests for an adjournment but that leniency will only go so far. All you need to do is keep checking the tribunal website for the evidence pack.


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bella(trying to ...
post Thu, 23 Jul 2020 - 08:18
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Thanks again for your reply.

Just checked the Tribunal portal again today and there still isn't any evidence pack from Barnet Council authority yet.

Will keep checking tomorrow, over the weekend and Monday/Tuesday to see if the request another adjournment or upload anything

I have requested Reasonable Adjustments of "time extension to review documents" but feel this has not been considered.

Tribunals say that the authorities evidence pack should be uploaded 3 days before the hearing, so will load as soon as we get it.

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bella(trying to ...
post Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 08:08
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Morning again

We've just checked the tribunal portal to see if Barnet council have uploaded the evidence pack yet, but unfortunately the only things that have been uploaded is another 2 requests from them to Adjourn the matter.

This totals 5 requests but I haven't yet received any communication from the Tribunal advising me that they plan to reschedule tomorrows telephone hearing for 10am again yet either.

Should we contact the tribunal today or just wait to be telephoned tomorrow morning?
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 11:44
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QUOTE (bella(trying to work) @ Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 09:08) *
Morning again

We've just checked the tribunal portal to see if Barnet council have uploaded the evidence pack yet, but unfortunately the only things that have been uploaded is another 2 requests from them to Adjourn the matter.

This totals 5 requests but I haven't yet received any communication from the Tribunal advising me that they plan to reschedule tomorrows telephone hearing for 10am again yet either.

Should we contact the tribunal today or just wait to be telephoned tomorrow morning?


Object to the further request

I object to a further continuance of this case on the grounds that it is disproportionate. This case has already been adjourned at the behest of the council on XXX occasions. A further continuance stretches the requirement to deal with the matter in a timely and proportionate manner beyond what is reasonable


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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 12:29
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OP---do you know whether chocolateandcoffee has suffered the same footdragging.

Mick
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cp8759
post Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 14:58
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 12:44) *
I object to a further continuance of this case on the grounds that it is disproportionate. This case has already been adjourned at the behest of the council on XXX occasions. A further continuance stretches the requirement to deal with the matter in a timely and proportionate manner beyond what is reasonable

+1, but also assume the hearing will go ahead tomorrow unless you are notified in writing that it is not. If the hearing does take place tomorrow, press the adjudicator to make a decision there and then.


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bella(trying to ...
post Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 15:25
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Hi Guys,

Thanks for you reply's and advise but ironically and spookily, I've just, this minute, had a phone call from London Tribunal's adviser saying that Barnets current request for an adjournment has been rejected by the Adjudicator.

No evidence pack has been supplied to them and I haven't received one either.

The adjudicator wont be ringing me tomorrow, but the case will be going ahead, and the Adjudicator will be emailing me on Thursday. (so not to assume but........) fingers crossed.

We'll have something to upload for you all tomorrow.

RE: Chocolateandcoffee I'm not sure if they sent an appeal to London Tribunals in the end. but will see if I can find they're thread.
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bella(trying to ...
post Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 10:43
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As promised, we've attached the Adjudicator's Decision and Reasons which we received today.

hello.gif icon_cheers.gif

https://imgur.com/a/JgFvg2c Adjudicator's Decision

https://imgur.com/a/K2GRe3s Adjudicator's Reasons

I hope my case can help others in future, and although we've been successful this time, I'm not sure if Covid has played a valid part in the result, or if the Authority just didn't want to challenge this further? occasion14.gif

Either way, I must thank all involved again, and we've donated again to the site because there's no way we would have been brave enough to take this to the Adjudicator's without all of your valuable experience, help, and guidance which is invaluable and has just saved us from £130 fine. notworthy.gif nike.gif

Massive Thank You to all.

blob10.gif blob9.gif blob7.gif blob6.gif blob5.gif blob3.gif biggrin.gif

If someone can advise me of how to move this thread onto the successful Appeal Site so it can be shared.

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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 21:09
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QUOTE (bella(trying to work) @ Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 11:43) *
As promised, we've attached the Adjudicator's Decision and Reasons which we received today.

hello.gif icon_cheers.gif

https://imgur.com/a/JgFvg2c Adjudicator's Decision

https://imgur.com/a/K2GRe3s Adjudicator's Reasons

I hope my case can help others in future, and although we've been successful this time, I'm not sure if Covid has played a valid part in the result, or if the Authority just didn't want to challenge this further? occasion14.gif

Either way, I must thank all involved again, and we've donated again to the site because there's no way we would have been brave enough to take this to the Adjudicator's without all of your valuable experience, help, and guidance which is invaluable and has just saved us from £130 fine. notworthy.gif nike.gif

Massive Thank You to all.

blob10.gif blob9.gif blob7.gif blob6.gif blob5.gif blob3.gif biggrin.gif

If someone can advise me of how to move this thread onto the successful Appeal Site so it can be shared.


You need to hit the report button and ask a mod to do it


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MMV Redux
post Sun, 16 Apr 2023 - 08:41
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This is a current Decision:-

2230134550 (Norman Tuchband v London Borough of Barnet)

In this case the appellant attended for a face to face hearing of his appeal in Furnival St on 20 March.

What the cctv clip I viewed showed were two parallel yellow boxes in the carriageway in Station Road

The clip shows the appellant car driving in the yellow box (northbound) in the Station Rd and records it stopped there towards the end of the box due to a stationary vehicle ahead.

The cctv evidence shows how there is an unboxed lane for northbound vehicles seeking to turn right between the pair of parallel boxes. No part of that lane is contained in either of the two boxes.

In presenting his appeal the appellant emphasised the brevity of his stop as he came close to exiting from the box and how traffic flow had not been affected by the stop he made. I agreed that there was certainly no traffic shown as hindered by it. The appellant stated his belief that numerous similar PCNs from this box had been imposed on drivers and how much motorist resentment had developed from PCNs for what he viewed as being at worst minor and purely technical infringements.

He asked the adjudicator to overturn his penalty charge on the basis that the box wherein his car was stopped was not one from which a valid penalty charge could arise because the carriageway used by buses and other vehicles to enter and exit Station Road from the bus station was not laid at a junction between two roads within the meaning of Schedule 9 sub-paragraph 11(6)(a) of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (“TSRGD”). The appellant urged me to accept that the carriageway into the bus station was of a private character being without public access.

The Council argument for valid enforcement is that the yellow box wherein the appellant car was recorded stopped was one at a junction of two roads and thus one coming within Schedule 9 sub-paragraph 11(6)(a) TSRGD. Whilst I am well aware that fire station, ambulance and police station entrances benefit from special categorisation in TSRGD, there is nothing equivalent in respect of bus stations or bus depots (hence an earlier decision of this tribunal in favour of the motorist in an appeal in relation to a different yellow box directly outside, footway pavement apart, the doors of a bus company's garage premises).

I am reaching no finding in relation to the southbound box in the above pair of boxes and I have made no ruling as to the status of the carriageway leading off Station Road into the bus station.

On the evidence I have received I am not persuaded to find the northbound of the pair of boxes can be described as situated at a junction between two or more roads within the meaning of Schedule 9 sub-paragraph 11(6)(a) TSRGD. Whatever junction of two roads may lie nearest the northbound box, I do not find it as sufficiently proximate to the northbound box for that box to fall within the ambit of Schedule 9 sub-paragraph 11(6)(a) TSRGD,

I have accordingly recorded this appeal as allowed.

In reaching the above decision I have borne in mind that the Council did not refer me to any current or historical special authorisation for the northbound box and I have thus assumed that none was ever granted under the special authorisation procedure operated by the Department for Transport. In earlier days special authorisations for yellow boxes were frequently seen by adjudicators. The power to make one still exists and an approach to the Department for Transport may be considered warranted if the Council seeks to demonstrate traffic considerations in Station Road justify what box features it has laid down in Station Road.

Mick
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