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FightBack Forums _ Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices _ Pcn issued by buckinghamshire county council

Posted by: SK1994 Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 19:49
Post #1343869

Good evening,

I have today received a PCN from Buckinghamshire County Council regarding an incident where the vehicle mentioned was "parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force".

This was issued by a civil enforcement officer who had reason to believe that the above parking contravention had occurred and had begun to prepare a PCN for service. The vehicle was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the CEO had finished preparing the PCN was unable to serve it by affixing it to the vehicle or giving it to the person in charge of the vehicle.

The day of the incident, the driver had parked his car on the corner of the road as many other people do and had quickly gone to pick up a food order for his family after work and had a passenger waiting in the car. As soon as the first officer arrived, the driver was called and ran straight back. The first offer was advised by the passenger that the driver is coming back right now and was happy to not give a PCN, however when the driver had arrived, a second officer had shown up and had written up a PCN in which the driver responded that he has returned, your colleague said it is ok so why are you still issuing this. The driver advised the officer that this will not be paid for and will be appealed and they said they would just send it in the post.

Is there a way I can appeal this particular PCN? I have had to deal with so many in recent months and I refuse to go through with this.

Feedback will be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards

SK

Posted by: stamfordman Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 19:59
Post #1343873

Post the PCN. Use a pic site and post links. Show us the location on Google street view.

Posted by: SK1994 Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:10
Post #1343895

Which pic site would you recommend?

Posted by: stamfordman Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:13
Post #1343897

I use Flickr - no ads and you can select BBCode to post the pics so they show on the forum.

Posted by: SK1994 Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:16
Post #1343898

https://ibb.co/bAUA2G

The vehicle was parked right next to the door of the Treatz desert parlour

Posted by: PASTMYBEST Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:19
Post #1343899

QUOTE (SK1994 @ Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:16) *
https://ibb.co/bAUA2G

The vehicle was parked right next to the door of the Treatz desert parlour


Good now we know that works can we have ALL of the documents redact only reg and PCN number

Posted by: SK1994 Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:31
Post #1343904

https://ibb.co/jU0szw
https://ibb.co/f5o1sG
https://ibb.co/hYxuCG
https://ibb.co/co7Y6b
https://ibb.co/gPfxXG
https://ibb.co/jQ0aKw
https://ibb.co/epQLmb

Posted by: stamfordman Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:49
Post #1343917

You can select the BBcode so we can see them e.g:

https://ibb.co/jU0szw

Posted by: SK1994 Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:53
Post #1343918

Are you not able to click the links and view the photos? I don't know how to do all this stuff.

Posted by: PASTMYBEST Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:55
Post #1343919

QUOTE (SK1994 @ Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:53) *
Are you not able to click the links and view the photos? I don't know how to do all this stuff.



Yep seen them there are errors that might assist you

Posted by: stamfordman Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:56
Post #1343920

If you go to Embed codes on the bottom left and copy BBcode full image and paste that does the trick. It's easier than wading through a list of links.

Posted by: SK1994 Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 22:12
Post #1343922

https://ibb.co/jU0szw

https://ibb.co/f5o1sG

https://ibb.co/hYxuCG

https://ibb.co/co7Y6b

https://ibb.co/gPfxXG

https://ibb.co/jQ0aKw

https://ibb.co/epQLmb

Posted by: hcandersen Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 09:07
Post #1343962

We need clearer photos to pinpoint your car. The DYL are not continuous for the whole frontage of Treatz, part of which is in a 'no motor vehicles' area!

But presuming you were parked on the 24/7 waiting and loading restriction then clearly you were in contravention. You cannot just stop at these locations to pop into shops.

Posted by: Kryten 4000 Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 15:48
Post #1344054

GSV shows numerous "no loading at any time" notices in that area.


Posted by: SK1994 Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 09:20
Post #1344472

So is there anything I can do regarding appealing this or should I just simply pay within the 14 days?

Posted by: PASTMYBEST Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 09:31
Post #1344473

QUOTE (SK1994 @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 09:20) *
So is there anything I can do regarding appealing this or should I just simply pay within the 14 days?

We need a GSV link so we can have a look round and check the signage and also the council photos to offer best advice

Posted by: SK1994 Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 13:36
Post #1344819

https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.630812,-0.752706,190.96h,1.95p,1.8z

Posted by: DancingDad Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 15:13
Post #1344850

QUOTE (SK1994 @ Wed, 3 Jan 2018 - 21:16) *
https://ibb.co/bAUA2G

The vehicle was parked right next to the door of the Treatz desert parlour


Well, I am confused
Treatz address is given as 1 Oxford Street, not Church Street.
But there is a join somewhere and not sure where
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6307113,-0.7528898,3a,75y,86.02h,88.24t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sdGEWH-mjPHATHYUJLJ84_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i40
And I cannot see any Kerb Blips or No Loading post signs ?

Posted by: Kryten 4000 Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 16:29
Post #1344868


Posted by: PASTMYBEST Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 17:08
Post #1344890

The sign on the other side of the road has no bearing. This one does, but no kerb blips so not adequate

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6308119,-0.7527056,3a,15y,214.62h,85.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4JVco_PSY-B0Y9ZfYph1UQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Posted by: SK1994 Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:28
Post #1346780

So what can I do?

Posted by: PASTMYBEST Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 17:23
Post #1346808

QUOTE (SK1994 @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:28) *
So what can I do?


You are babg to rights as to the DYL. But the contravention they cite is waiting/unloading. The signage to inform of this should be yellow kerb blips and upright sign. You would not look for the sign if there are no kerb blips to inform you of the loading restriction.

So make representations that absent the kerb blips the signage is inadequate to inform a motorist of the restriction

Posted by: SK1994 Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 19:15
Post #1346838

I'm sorry but I didn't understand a word of that, I'm just going to pay for it and be done with

Posted by: hcandersen Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:01
Post #1346912

OP, if you can pay the discount (because you seem minded to do so), then do so. It's your money and choice and the clock stopped ticking yesterday according to the date of the PCN. Therefore we don't have the luxury of time to get the detail we need - and we're still examining the details of location, signs and lines - because we can't assess without these building blocks.

But if the discount is not available??




Posted by: SK1994 Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 16:29
Post #1347003

I received the PCN through the post on the day I posted on this forum which was 03/01/2018 not the date on the notice stating 23/12/2017

Posted by: John U.K. Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 16:30
Post #1347004

QUOTE (SK1994 @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 16:29) *
I received the PCN through the post on the day I posted on this forum which was 03/01/2018 not the date on the notice stating 23/12/2017


What was the date of postmark? Was it first class?

Posted by: Mad Mick V Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 17:58
Post #1347032

OP---if you try to pay this penalty on line via the Council's website it will, most likely be for the full amount. To get the discount you will have to prove that you got the PCN late --not easy.

In such circumstances is there prejudice --yes because you have not been able to settle within the 14 day "window".

You seem to have two options:-

1. contacting the Council--describing the late post and asking them to re-offer the discount;

2. Fighting the case on the basis of the 1st CEOs comments/inaction and the signage.

If these signs are still in place the information given to a motorist is pretty confusing:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6308499,-0.7528514,3a,20.8y,164.56h,92.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syl_kkSPIDjSU9zM8aSBJag!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

So you are in an area which has restricted access but access none the less. You accessed Treatz but fell foul of a DYL and they are trying to pin the contravention Code 02 "Parked or loading / unloading in a restricted street where waiting and
loading / unloading restrictions are in force".

But no kerb blips:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6306205,-0.7525151,3a,51.7y,261.79h,87.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCwWNyWVoDv9Vc-pJdvfoYQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Bit of a dog's breakfast.

Mick

Posted by: cp8759 Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 18:24
Post #1347040

QUOTE (SK1994 @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 19:15) *
I'm sorry but I didn't understand a word of that, I'm just going to pay for it and be done with

You may want to consider that you have grounds to appeal within the PCN itself. Here's some wording you can use if you feel so inclined:

I would like to challenge the PCN on the grounds that there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the council. The PCN provides, under the heading "Form and Time for Representations", that "These representations must be sent...within 28 days from the date of service of this notice (the payment period)" and under the heading "Consideration of Representations" it further provides that "The council may consider representations received after the permitted time period if the reasons for the late submission are received and accepted by the council"

Regulation 3(4) of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007 provides that:

(4) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 10 of the General Regulations must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under paragraph 2 of the Schedule to those Regulations, include the following information—

(a)that representations on the basis specified in regulation 4 may be made to the enforcement authority against the imposition of the penalty charge but that representations made outside the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served (“the representations period”) may be disregarded;


It is trite law that to say "within 28 days from the date of service of this notice" is one day more than "the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served"; by purporting to extend the representations period by one day, the enforcement authority has acted beyond its powers, and by failing to mention the correct representations period, the enforcement authority has failed to comply with regulation 3(4) of the Representations and Appeals Regulations.

The above amounts to an obvious procedural impropriety, I therefore look forward to receiving confirmation from you that the PCN has been cancelled. Please be advised that, because the procedural impropriety is blatant and obvious, should this matter proceed to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal I will contend that in not cancelling the PCN you have acted unreasonably and I will invite the adjudicator to make a costs order against you.

Posted by: hcandersen Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 18:53
Post #1347052

Step by step,and small steps.

Is the discount available?

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