Defence, Does my Defence stand? Options

[VRRR]

Hey all,

I wonder if anyone experience could have a look at my Defence and advise if it actually stands any chance regarding my circumstances.

Short story.. I have received a Parking Charge notice while we briefly visited our friend at their new flat back in January 2021. It was a genuine case of not seeing the signs (only resident permit holders) on the particular street we have stopped our car. Our friend being relatively new in the area and not owning a car, was a little ignorant regarding this aspect. Anyhow we have stopped the car and we have carried some goods to his flat, we must've spent approx 15-20 mins away from the car, however on return we were surprised to find out that we have received a PCN. Obviously wasn't happy with it but my friend said that he would try to sort it out by talking to whoever manages the car park. After several unsuccessful attempts to get hold of the car park management , he gave up and so did I. I have started to receive a couple of letters but I have ignored them, out of both frustration of their method of extorting money from people but also somehow knowing the way private parking companies are operating.

I have now received a Claim letter from CPM and their "alleged " solicitors, however due to the genuinity of my case (unclear signage) after spending some hours on forums and reading some cases, I have decided I would try to defend my case mainly invoking the simple law of non legible, unclear and non concise signage, but also arguing the added inflated sum as being (as per CRA 2015). The main entrance on the residential estate has no sign whatsoever to make you aware of the Contract's term and conditions, nor the actual street where the alleged parking event has occured. there are few sporadically placed signs (noticed only after receiving the ticket) and are of the same type that private companies got us used with: small prints, not very big boards, strategically placed, etc.

I have attached my Defence (I have used and adapted the template from MSE forum).

To be fair I do not want to give up but at the same time I feel reluctant having read all kind of stories

Attached File(s)

 Defence_1.pdf ( 253.52K ) Number of downloads: 158

 

[Advertisement]

[VRRR]

Thanks for your comprehensive answer.
I absolutely agree with all your points. As a matter of fact I've had these two main arguments in mind from the beginning (the signage and my friend's lease contract) as they were the two main factors that determined me to stop my vehicle at the time, however when I have come across Jopson , I kind of felt that there were elements that would enforce my point i.e. stopping close to the building to unload, the time required to walk upstairs and back considering my wife's situation, cumulated with my lack of awareness regarding "the contract" or signage.

I will focus on these points going forward, many thanks for advice. In the meantime I will try to get my friend to write a short statement as you suggested.

I have one more question though. I have received a letter from the Claimant's including their N180 and I have noticed that they (as well as the N180 sent to me by CCBC) used the old version of the form. Can I, in this case, use the same version? As mentioned above, if I have to use the online template in order to send it electronically I will have to answer the new D1 section where I am required to justify why I need my case to be heard face to face, not on papers.(I still don't know what argument I could use here).

Also I have noticed that the Claimant's opted for the mediation service. Do you advise me in this case to tick that option as well so we can try to settle the case.(I am thinking that this intention will look good in front of the judge should it get to the hearing anyway)

This post has been edited by VRRR: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 06:25

[hcandersen]

Getting back to the annoying thing called evidence, so far you've suggested:

'briefly stopped'
15-20 minutes

These are your words, not the claimant's. So what exactly do they allege and what evidence do they have in support e.g. do they have you timed just in and out of an area, photos in situ showing an observation period of X etc?

We are so immersed in process that the facts from the claimant's side seem almost incidental.

[VRRR]

They have issued a ticket and that's it. I have asked for a SAR but it seems it has never arrived to get more info on this. But my feeling is that some of the residents are tasked with "hunting " whoever enters the premises and they don't have no interest in giving a verbal warning or even a grace period, they are only interested in making profits and issue as many tickets as possible, not actually trying to prevent any motorists to park there.
Sorry for keep mentioning, but I am running out of time and need to file my N180, but not sure if I should choose mediation or not (as the Claimant did) so any advise on this would me much appreciated.

This post has been edited by VRRR: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 08:03

[DWMB2]

Whether or not to choose mediation depends on how much you'd be prepared to settle the case for. If you're not prepared to settle then there's probably little point in mediation.

[Sheffield Dave]

The thing is, can you justify to a Judge that the total time the vehicle was stopped was reasonably devoted purely to loading, and that the periods the driver was away from the vehicle were always due to things being carried up stairs and into rooms etc? Or did the driver stop for a cup of tea afterwards or whatever? As in, if the claimant's solicitor cross-examines you, can you answer truthfully that the vehicle was only there long enough to un(load)?

[hcandersen]

OP, but not sure if I should choose mediation or not (as the Claimant did) so any advise on this would me much appreciated.


Under the Civil Procedure Rules parties should make every effort to settle their case. At this stage you should still think about whether you and the other
party(ies) can settle your dispute without going to a hearing.
You may seek to settle the claim either by direct discussion or negotiation with the other party or by mediation. If settlement is reached parties may enter into a binding agreement which can be enforced if the terms of the agreement were to be breached.
Mediation is a way of resolving disputes without a court hearing, where the parties are assisted in resolving their dispute with the help of an impartial mediator. If the claim is settled at this stage the parties can avoid further court fees, costs and time involved in preparing and attending a hearing.
You may use any mediation provider. However, HMCTS provide a free confidential Small Claims Mediation Service which is available to parties in most small claims cases which are for less than £10,000.
Mediation is usually carried out by telephone in one hour time limited appointments convenient to the parties and is quicker than waiting for a court hearing before a judge. There is no obligation to use the Small Claims Mediation Service nor are you required to settle if you do. If you are unable to reach agreement with the other party at mediation, the claim will proceed to a small claims hearing.

So far you've not engaged with the claimant at any stage to resolve this without, as the court might see it, playing procedural games.

What's to lose? Nothing, IMO. You're not committed to anything, however do you think you could participate sensibly in a telephone discussion?
What's to gain: As you're struggling with procedure, the avoidance of court proceedings which you're ill-equipped to handle and at which point you could be asked why you've not engaged with the Claimant at any stage, including mediation.

[VRRR]

The reason for stopping it was purely for unloading. My friend who at the time had just moved in the area asked me to transport various things for him as he did not have a car. Obviously when we arrived to the flat (4th floor) we didn't just rushed out, but I believe this is humanly and socially normal, however we did not intend or stayed for tea, coffee, wine, etc. We obviously exchanged few words and had the look around the flat, at the end of the day we weren't a delivery company and it is almost inconceivable for anyone in that situation to just drop the bags and run back (even if this was the case I'm pretty sure the ticket would have still been there). After my genuine estimation the whole process should've not taken longer than 20 mins.

However, it is important to emphasize on the fact that I genuinly did not see the signage nor was I informed in any way on the car park regulations (it was also past 21:00hrs and one could also assume that most of parking restrictions are null, provided there were no other signs visible).

One thing that I regret and could "affect" my whole argument would be that I have not engaged in conversation with the PP, but like mentioned in the previous conversations this was both out of frustration and due to the fact that I was almost convinced of the inefficient outcome even if I had done it.

This post has been edited by VRRR: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 08:42

[nosferatu1001]

Just follow the MSE instructions. Mediate if you wish. Just expect to be told you're going to lose so settle now. This is because the mediator gets paid more if you settle.

Sheffield - that isn't part of any private parking rwuirments. Those rules exist on public DYL.

[Sheffield Dave]

Sheffield - that isn't part of any private parking rwuirments. Those rules exist on public DYL.

I know, there aren't any rules - it's entirely within the whim of a judge. The Jopson judge made up a (sensible) rule about parking v loading. Other judges are likely to follow similar reasoning, but the case becomes a lot weaker if the vehicle was stopped for loading for a lot longer than what you can convince a judge it was necessary for. At which point they are well within their rights to declare that it was parking after all. So I was making sure that the OP is aware of this and won't be tripped up on the day by a judge or solicitor asking whether it really took 20 minutes to move a bookcase or whatever.

[nosferatu1001]

I don't think it becomes a *lot* weaker. It can all be thrown back at them as to what commercial justification is there for their existence? None.