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Help needed please to appeal a PCN where there was no visible signage
Mamaof3
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:48
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I had some guests over at the weekend, unfortunately they arrived when I was not yet at home and were ushered in by mum who is not a resident in the estate,but was at my place helping with the kids.
Now the issue is that my guests where issued with a PCN, because of where they parked, reason given on ticket says 'parked in restricted area'.
There are no bay markings on where the parked and no signs around the area saying it's a restricted area. Infact the signs around the area are facing a different position and is positioned where there are marked bays. I feel so bad that they have received these tickets and want to appeal on their behalf as it's totally unfair to let them pay this fine.
PCN was issued by PCM
Please help and advise me on what to write in my appeal.
Thank you
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post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:48
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ManxRed
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:54
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Are there any signs anywhere? Can you show photos that show : The wording on the signs (if there are any), and relative position of the signs to where your guest parked. I'm thinking this is probably a Trespass issue for which the parking company can claim zilch, but it depends on what is written on the signs.

Do you have a lease or shorthold tenancy agreement that talks about visitors parking?

There's quite a few angles here, mainly the lack of signs and a possibility that on the few hidden signs that are present it amounts to a trespass issue, but we need to see them.


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Mamaof3
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 13:52
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Thank you so much for responding. I have attached pictures of where the next sign is. If you look closely,it has been hung on top of the light pole in the picture,facing the other side of the street road.
There are visitors bays and we all have been given a visitor's parking permit to display in the bays.

I had to go close to another sign far from where my guests parked to get a clear shot of the wordings.
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ManxRed
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 14:24
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OK, those signs don't look particularly 'visible' at all. That's their first appeal point. No contract was formed because the driver failed to see the signs. No contract, then no breach occurred, and hence they don't owe anything.

Was the PCN issued by post, or left on the windscreen? If by post, how long after the incident was the PCN received?

This post has been edited by ManxRed: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 14:25


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Mamaof3
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 14:34
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It was left on the windscreen. One more thing please, can i put in the appeal on their behalf?
Thank you so much x
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 14:53
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Noone does anything on someones behalf
It is appealed IN THE NAME OF THE KEEPER
ANYONE can write the appeal, but it is the KEEPER who formally and legally appeals
This cannot be altered. Dont even try smile.gif
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MatchlessG80
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 14:55
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Is there an entrance sign to the car park? It looks very badly signed - is it possible to drive into the car park and stop in a 'space' without passing any signs? The problem is that if it ends up with a court claim then the parking company just has to indicate where the signs are - not as they appear at the time. This may sound trivial, but I have experience where a sign was attached with cable ties on a short pole, but was facing in the opposite direction to the entrance from the road and was free to move on the pole. If it is possible to park in the space shown in you first photo without passing any signs then I don't see how any contract can be formed. Might be worth having a photo of where you entered the car park from the road to show the absence of an entrance sign if this is in fact the case.
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Mamaof3
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 15:12
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Thank you for your responses. You will have to drive past that sign to get to the corner where they parked. Does that mean that they don't have strong enough grounds to appeal?
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ostell
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 16:09
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You can't be expected to read that small writing as you drive past, and how do you know it is a parking sign? So if there is nothing visible from the area parked then no contract.

Take a panorama shot around where the cars were parked (most phones do this).
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Mamaof3
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 16:44
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Thank you so very much, I did think the same. Can I please get help with a template in order to draft the appeal? PCM does not give an option to attach photos when appealing to them huh.gif
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ostell
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 17:15
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No need to attach photos, just make sure you have that photo and it is dated, so that they don't add additional signs.
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Mamaof3
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 18:33
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Thank you smile.gif
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SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 18:36
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QUOTE (Mamaof3 @ Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 17:44) *
Thank you so very much, I did think the same. Can I please get help with a template in order to draft the appeal? PCM does not give an option to attach photos when appealing to them huh.gif


PCM don't even do appeals...(don't tell me they do, because they don't, not they way you might think), so don't spend any time on it:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2015...f-all-time.html

Come back at court stage later, where PCM are then beatable at no risk to your credit.

NO trying IAS stage:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016...e-kangaroo.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017...ikes-again.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2015...government.html

Other people in similar situations have reported this as the way to get these scam PCNs cancelled:

QUOTE
I got into contact with the housing association and they spoke to PCM to cancel the ticket.


Appeal won't work so think outside the box, complain to the HA or MA of the estate. And come back at court stage if not resolved by then.
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Mamaof3
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 06:51
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Thank you x
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Mamaof3
post Sun, 21 Oct 2018 - 22:22
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Hi everyone, just an update. My guests insisted on appealing to PCM ,because they were scared to ignore PCN and as expected appeal was rejected. I have attached the response they received.
I noticed that on the letter they mentioned parking is not allowed in areas such as access areas etc, however this is not mentioned on any of their signage (I have already uploaded a pic of their sign).
Should they appeal to IAS, on grounds of inadequate signage and mention that the supposed sign they have in their photographic evidence does not mention what they stated on their letter.
Thanking you all in advance.
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 21 Oct 2018 - 22:59
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Nononnono. Already said: no doing IAS, stop setting yourselves up for a fall which will make you feel despondent and wrOngly believe that you have no case.

STOP!

Did anyone actually read the links I gave you and learn who you are dealing with in PCM?

Did anyone put in a ROBUST COMPLAINT about them?

Come back at court stage later, where PCM are then beatable at no risk to your credit.
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Mamaof3
post Mon, 22 Oct 2018 - 07:25
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Thanks schoolrunmum for the advise. I've heard that the HA do not assist in anyway when you complain to them. Is there anything in particular that needs to written in the complaint to get them to listen? Should the complaint be addressed to May be their chief exec to gain attention? Please advise, thank you
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