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FMOTL heading for a fall?, Aldi/PE discussion.
cabbyman
post Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 20:23
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There's quite an amusing exchange on a local Facebook group.

A guy fears that he has overstayed his welcome at the local Aldi and will he get a ticket? Wait 14 days, etc. Then in jump the 'ignorers,' the 'appealers,' the doomsayers insisting that jail and ruin awaits...etc., etc., etc., I, of course, have posted a link to this site with a strong recommendation thyat they come here for advice.

Then this exchange happens:

Mrs Reasonable: Mr FMOTL, you are categorically wrong.


Mr FMOTL: Mrs Reasonable, I am not wrong, as it's unlawful for them to act in any way. If you live in fear, and under the political shambles of the nazi government, then crack on, pay your money out. It's because they have people living in fear and paying out, that they do this. I will challenge any judge, jury or policy orificer with this, and I will beat them.
Self education gives you power, and that power gives you freedom!!


Mrs Reasonable: You are wrong. It isn't unlawful for them to issue you an invoice for contravening their terms, and it's not unlawful for them to take you to court and win if you ignore their letters. This is well tested in case law. I don't know why you think it wouldn't apply to you.

Mr FMOTL: Mrs Reasonable, as I am "off grid" then only common law applies to me.
Same as my vehicle, I have taken the jurisdiction away from the DVLA by deregistering my vehicle from their records, and move freely, as I am not living under statutes and acts of parliament. If any of it was law, then it would be called laws of parliament.
The arseholes that sit on any court bench are as corrupt as the government, and all courts are administration courts. No consent given to deal or trade with them. Same as the policy farce, no consent given so they cannot tell me what to do.
I AM AWAKE!!
Just wish everyone would wake up!


Mrs Reasonable: Yes if you're driving on the road without the DVLA knowing then what you are doing is illegal.


I am looking forward to the next installment!


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post Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 20:23
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southpaw82
post Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 21:35
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The usual codswallop then. I foresee a spell in prison for culpable neglect in paying a fine in his future.


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cabbyman
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 06:45
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I'm just wondering whether to give one of my contacts a nod. After all, his full name is on the posts that I have reproduced here!


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The Rookie
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 08:05
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He doesn't appear to know what 'off grid' means if he's posting on Facebook!

Also even if he were 'off grid' it would no effect on how laws apply to him although actual enforcement of some aspects would be an issue.


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DancingDad
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 10:15
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Untaxed vehicle, quite possibly uninsured given the mind set.
Off grid may well mean off road and on foot in the foreseeable future.
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 11:17
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It's terrible advice, but relative to much on Facebook it's probably about average.
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Churchmouse
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 12:51
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 08:05) *
He doesn't appear to know what 'off grid' means if he's posting on Facebook!

Also even if he were 'off grid' it would no effect on how laws apply to him although actual enforcement of some aspects would be an issue.

It's the lack of enforcement that convinces them that they're right. He will likely get away with it for some time--until he doesn't. "Ignore" was the right advice.

--Churchmouse

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jdh
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 13:00
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 11:17) *
It's terrible advice, but relative to much on Facebook it's probably about average.

There was a bit in the local paper the other day about how a driver took on and beat a parking company, what he actually did was point out it was a double dip ANPR job and they accepted that and cancelled the ticket. The comments on FB about it were hilarious, some even claimed he shouldn't have used that 'loophole' and should have paid!
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Darkatmosphere
post Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 18:46
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I remember watching a youtube video of the Cwmbran 5? and at the start the geezer who is representing this piece of paper says we claim common law jurisdiction and clerk goes "OH NO!" I present to the court MR XYZ, holding a birth certificate up, and the mags just bolt for it coz they know how this going to go down, Gwent police turn up and look like a deer caught in the headlights they don't know what to do! The best court room entertainment in Britain you will ever see is FMOTL's day in court, or rather Basil Faulty's day in the dock!





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Fredd
post Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 18:52
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Strangely the part that never seems to make it to YouTube for some reason is the follow-up, where the inevitable convictions ensue and fines etc are imposed as usual. It's a pity because the looks on their faces probably would be very entertaining. smile.gif


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DastardlyDick
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 22:57
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 18:52) *
Strangely the part that never seems to make it to YouTube for some reason is the follow-up, where the inevitable convictions ensue and fines etc are imposed as usual. It's a pity because the looks on their faces probably would be very entertaining. smile.gif

I strongly suspect that they quietly pay up having had their 15 minutes of fame.
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The Slithy Tove
post Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 11:08
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QUOTE (Darkatmosphere @ Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 18:46) *
I remember watching a youtube video of the Cwmbran 5? and at the start the geezer who is representing this piece of paper says we claim common law jurisdiction and clerk goes "OH NO!" I present to the court MR XYZ, holding a birth certificate up, and the mags just bolt for it coz they know how this going to go down, Gwent police turn up and look like a deer caught in the headlights they don't know what to do! The best court room entertainment in Britain you will ever see is FMOTL's day in court, or rather Basil Faulty's day in the dock!

Just go onto YouTube and search for "Sovereign Citizen", and you'll get no end of (mainly American) idiots spouting drivel like it's legally sound, and normally getting their comeuppance, whether being dragged from their car by police, or sent down by a judge for contempt. Or, if you seek out one P Barnes, being tazered (by Mr Barnes) for being a fool.
One video I saw (in the UK this time) had the police asking a driver "you're not Freeman of the Land, are you" in a rather exasperated, "oh no, another one of THEM" sort of way.

This post has been edited by The Slithy Tove: Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 11:13
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The Rookie
post Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 11:27
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The best one is still the Australian screaming 'I do not consent' ever more desperately having tried to avoid a 'Random Breath Test' station, while laughing at their own bravery. Followed of course by the sound of the drivers window being opened by a baton!


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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DancingDad
post Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 11:28
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 11:08) *
.........Just go onto YouTube and search for "Sovereign Citizen", and you'll get no end of (mainly American) idiots spouting drivel like it's legally sound, and normally getting their comeuppance, whether being dragged from their car by police, or sent down by a judge for contempt. ..

Some of the Judge's comments on them are priceless, as is their patience in many cases.
One that struck me was along the lines of "If Mr Smith is not here and you are acting as his authorised representative but will not tell me your name, I'm sending you both to the cells while you work out who you are" Only one person in the dock, both sent to cells biggrin.gif
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cp8759
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 16:17
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This is one of my favourites https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug-3TdVWQmg

The one fundamental delusion these people all suffer from is that there is a requirement for anyone to prove anything at all to them, rather than to the court.


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The Slithy Tove
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 17:59
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 16:17) *
This is one of my favourites https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug-3TdVWQmg


I liked that one, too, but couldn't think of the relevant search words to find it.
Judge: "There's a simple way for me to prove jurisdiction to you, and that would be for me to ask the Deputy to take you into custody."
Then he does exactly that. Priceless!

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Fredd
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 18:26
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 17:59) *
Judge: "There's a simple way for me to prove jurisdiction to you, and that would be for me to ask the Deputy to take you into custody."

Which seems to be the point that FMOTL types miss - ultimately the law is what the state says it is, because by definition the state has the power to impose it. Claiming to be independent of the state and not recognising its laws is all very well, but if you're in the territory it controls...


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DancingDad
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 18:41
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 18:26) *
QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 17:59) *
Judge: "There's a simple way for me to prove jurisdiction to you, and that would be for me to ask the Deputy to take you into custody."

Which seems to be the point that FMOTL types miss - ultimately the law is what the state says it is, because by definition the state has the power to impose it. Claiming to be independent of the state and not recognising its laws is all very well, but if you're in the territory it controls...

Otherwise perfectly rational people seem to have similar delusions after a few drinks..... "You can't arrest me!!!" "Wanna bet" Clink of cuffs.
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cp8759
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 21:38
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 18:26) *
QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 17:59) *
Judge: "There's a simple way for me to prove jurisdiction to you, and that would be for me to ask the Deputy to take you into custody."

Which seems to be the point that FMOTL types miss - ultimately the law is what the state says it is, because by definition the state has the power to impose it. Claiming to be independent of the state and not recognising its laws is all very well, but if you're in the territory it controls...

Quite, you could take the view that even if everything the FMOTL brigade say is correct, and the judges and police and prison officials are corrupt, and they are all guilty of kidnapping and false imprisonment for locking them up... at the end of the day they're still going to end up locked in a small room with bars on the window. Therefore FMOTL arguments should not be used because the corrupt police, judges and prison officers will kidnap you if you try and argue the "truth", hence it's better not to.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 23:07


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Slapdash
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 22:36
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Like any dispute does it not just come down to:

"You can't do that"
"I just did. Your move".

This post has been edited by Slapdash: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 22:36
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