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Caught Twice on the M25 - Same Day (Excessive Speeding both occasions)
bigmeech301
post Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 11:31
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Hello all,

Wondering if I could get some guidance, I have gotten myself into quite the pickle.

On the 23rd April, I was caught twice on the M25 near Clackets Lane, going either way, once in the morning and once in the afternoon, one at 100 and one at 101. There was no variable speed limit, the speed limit for 70mph.

The fine was sent to my company who elected me as the driver. Once I received both fines to my home address, I declared I was driver at the time of the offence, this was on the 15th June. Since then on 4th August I received a notice saying both offences exceeded any offers for courses so it would be referred to an SJPN.

As of 14th August 2020, I have received an SJPN in my name for both of the offences. I have been asked to plea guilty or not guilty ,as well as being able to submit mitigating circumstances and having to declared my finances etc.

I am going to plead guilty to both offences, I truly understand the severity of what I have done, and to have done it twice, I am not expecting to be let off lightly. I live in London and work in Kent, I have been commuting for the past 3 years, every day, on the M25, this is my first motorway speeding offence. The offences were during the pandemic and I was travelling to work, we were classed as key workers at the time of the pandemic when everyone was on lock down.

I am 25 years old, I have had my license for 8 years, I had a SP30 in 2014 which has since been removed from my license, I did also have an awareness course in February 2020 for speeding on Tower Bridge (25 in a 20). Part time I also have a private hire license and private hire vehicle which I do on the weekends, if I get banned or accumulate high points then this will affect me being able to get insurance for private hire, and also will jeopardize my full time job as I rely on my license to travel from London to Kent everyday.

My employer is willing to write a character statement stating I am essential to daily operations of the business and it would affect the business if I was not able to come to work etc.

Any advice on what to do in my situation, as I said I plan to plead guilty, I don't want to plead not guilty and incur high court costs, I admit what I have done is wrong and it is all my doing. Is there any possibility for the offence to be taken as one, or is it possible that the 101mph ticket is reduced to 100 (As I know anything 100 or over is a different story).
What would be best to write for my mitigating circumstances? I have 21 days to respond to the SJPN.

Thank you in advance.
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post Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 11:31
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The Rookie
post Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 11:44
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Both offences are either 6 points or a short ban.

If you get a short ban for one or the other you get no points for that offence and will be able to drive once the short ban has ended.

If the single justice decides a ban should be considered (very likely) he will adjourn the case and refer it to a full court hearing where you'll be required to attend.

If you get 6 points for both then you will have 12 and be liable for a 6 months ban (strictly disqualification), that won't happen without a court hearing and you'll be able to submit an 'exceptional hardship plea.

If the court accepts the EH plea they can reduce the period of disqualification to potentially zero. Please note that due to the number of EH pleas that were succeeding guidance is being revised to emphases it must be exceptional, loss of a job IS NOT considered exceptional on it's own.

There is little you can do to steer a court towards a short ban for one offence as they will know exactly why you are doing it.

Plead guilty to both now and you'll have to see what you get from the single justice first and prepare for both cases and totting ban issue to be held at one hearing.


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Jlc
post Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 11:48
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You are very likely to get 12 points and face a totting ban of 6 months.

You can attend court and submit an exceptional hardship plea to try and reduce that, potentially to none. The impact on others carries more weight.

A short ban is possible as an alternative to points, but unlikely - and you would need to attend court anyway to try and convince the bench (against guidance).

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 11:50


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NewJudge
post Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 13:15
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First of all I believe there is virtually zero chance of the two offences being combined. They were separate events committed whilst you were travelling in opposite directions. That said, it will cost you nothing to ask.

Neither of these offences on their own would normally attract a ban (for the single offence). The most likely outcome is six points for each meaning you face a “totting up” in which event your case will be adjourned by the Single Justice for a full court hearing. I think you should prepare yourself for this because Magistrates have clear guidance that says where they have an option of a short ban or points and the points would lead to a totting up disqualification, then points should be imposed. Of course if you encountered a particularly lenient Bench who really did not want to see you suffer a six month ban they might consider disqualifying you for a short period the first offence and imposing six points for the second (thus, strictly speaking, not going against their guidance). However, I think the chances of that are remote.

You need to consider carefully what “hardship” you or others will face if banned. Remember it has to be "exceptional" - that is over and above the hardship any other driver would face if banned. Many people rely on being able to drive to either get to or undertake their job and as mentioned, loss of employment alone is insufficient. When you say you need to drive to travel from London to Kent for work, why can that journey not be undertaken by public transport? Your case will very probably be heard at Maidstone Magistrates’ Court and the justices there will very likely have a good knowledge of travelling between London and Kent. Your being critical to your employer’s business will similarly not stand up by itself. Presumably he/she managed before you worked there and would have to manage if you resigned. You have already had four months for both of you to consider the problems you face (and will probably have another two before your cases are finally concluded) and you will need to explain why both you and your employer have not been able to make some arrangements to cope with you being disqualified. Is anybody else dependent on you being able to drive?

At the end of this there are four possible outcomes:

1. You receive six points for each offence and are disqualified under the totting up procedure.
2. You receive six points for each offence and make a successful “Exceptional Hardship” argument and are not banned.
3. You receive six points for one offence and a short ban for the other.
4. You receive a short ban for each offence.

I would suggest that (3) and (4) are unlikely to occur. If (1) is the outcome you will leave court with no points and no licence but with two endorsements for speeding. If (2) is the result you will leave court with 12 points and your licence but also with two endorsements for speeding. Either way this will probably influence your insurance premiums so once again you need to prepare for this.

There’s no easy get out from this, I am afraid. Work on your EH argument and perhaps post a draft on here for comment. Its success will see you keep your licence but I don’t see it having much effect on how your private hire (or ordinary) insurance premiums will rise.
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bigmeech301
post Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 14:41
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Thanks for the replies so far - mainly what I was expecting unfortunately. Newjudge gave some good insights, can you help me with the below questions;

In the scenario that I plead guilty and the case is referred to court because I am given 12 points, does this immediately mean that I will incur the high costs associated with going to court? And if I am punished for both penalties, will I also be fined twice? Or will this be consolidated into one large fine?

What is considered as exceptional hardship, other than myself (which I understand doesn’t matter), my company will suffer as due to COVID we have lost some members of staff, with very low staff members currently and re-employment difficult, it will be difficult to replace and train someone whilst we have fairly large contracts to operate. A lot of our contracts are for care homes and providing new gas services and installations for them. As for others, I help my mum financially when I get paid towards various bills, if I were to lose my job then again she would suffer financial hardship. She is on a low income salary so my contributions are fairly significant, I pay towards council tax, mortgage, electricity as well as my own bills. I understand the argument may come that I can find another job, however I have worked so hard for the last 3 years to get to where I am, it would be painful to know I lose my job due to 2 (significant) mistakes I made on one day. I am unsure if this is an exceptional hardship for others, but I will not be able to be a taxi driver – I have just finished paying for a car which I will be using for this and I also paid for an insurance premium upfront.

Will it be considered in court that I make this commute every day for the past 3 years and have had no issues previously? In addition to the fact that this was during the lock down period and I was commuting for essential work, I also had news the night before that a close family member was showing symptoms of COVID and was self-isolating – although this may be irrelevant, this is something that was in my head on that day.

The journey one way for me to travel from London to Kent by public transport is 2.5 hours, in comparison to the 45 minute job by vehicle. My job also has a requirement for me to have a license in order to drive our vehicles.

Ideally a ban for one offence and 6 points for the other sounds great, but I understand this is a very unlikely scenario.
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NewJudge
post Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 15:14
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QUOTE (bigmeech301 @ Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 15:41) *
In the scenario that I plead guilty and the case is referred to court because I am given 12 points, does this immediately mean that I will incur the high costs associated with going to court? And if I am punished for both penalties, will I also be fined twice? Or will this be consolidated into one large fine?

Your cases have already been referred to court. The Single Justice Procedure is part of the court process. They have been referred there because the speeds alleged are too high to be dealt with by way of a course or fixed penalty. The guidelines under which you will be sentenced are the same whether used by a Single Justice or the full court. The Single justice will refer the matter to the full court if disqualification is considered (which is a near certainty one way or another). You will be fined individually for each offence. The guideline fine is a week and a half's net income for 101mph and one week's net income for 100mph. Both will be reduced by a third if you plead guilty. You will also pay a "Victim Surcharge" of 10% of the highest fine (minimum £34) and £85 costs. The sentencing guidelines are here:

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offenc...g-revised-2017/

QUOTE (bigmeech301 @ Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 15:41) *
What is considered as exceptional hardship, other than myself (which I understand doesn’t matter),

It is not defined and is entirely a matter for the court to decide. Hardship to yourself is considered but that visited on others usually carries more weight (the court sees no reason why others should suffer for your offences but of course sometimes that is unavoidable). The matters you describe about your job will carry more weight if they are fully explained by your employer who can put them in writing to the court for you to present. Everybody is expected to suffer some hardship if they are banned, even if it means they cannot go for their Sunday morning drive. As I explained, it has to be "exceptional" for your argument to succeed.

QUOTE (bigmeech301 @ Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 15:41) *
Will it be considered in court that I make this commute every day for the past 3 years and have had no issues previously?

It won't have much effect. All drivers are expected to obey speed limits. If you had recent previous convictions they would aggravate the current offences but the lack of them does not mitigate them.

QUOTE (bigmeech301 @ Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 15:41) *
In addition to the fact that this was during the lock down period and I was commuting for essential work, I also had news the night before that a close family member was showing symptoms of COVID and was self-isolating – although this may be irrelevant, this is something that was in my head on that day.

You can mention these factors but in all honesty they are unlikely to make a difference. Sentencing for speeding is fairly prescriptive and it takes a lot to mitigate offences involving speeds of 100mph plus.

QUOTE (bigmeech301 @ Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 15:41) *
The journey one way for me to travel from London to Kent by public transport is 2.5 hours, in comparison to the 45 minute job by vehicle. My job also has a requirement for me to have a license in order to drive our vehicles.

This should form part of your "Exceptional Hardship" argument.

QUOTE (bigmeech301 @ Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 15:41) *
Ideally a ban for one offence and 6 points for the other sounds great, but I understand this is a very unlikely scenario.

Most unlikely, IMHO. Stranger things have happened and if you encounter a particularly sympathetic Single Justice you may find yourself receiving only five points instead of six for the 100mph offence. It would be very fortunate if you did and do not count on it because six points (or a short ban) is the appropriate sentence for 100mph.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 16:11
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bigmeech301
post Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 15:30
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Thank you very much Newjudge, I really appreciate the advise you are giving me. I will work on my EH argument and post it here for any tips when completed.

Just a final question for the moment - with the current SJPN I have, I have the option to fill out "Mitigation; What you want the magistrate to consider when making a decision about your guilty plea" - Should I be writing my EH argument on to this as well as using the same EH argument if/when it is referred to full court?
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BaggieBoy
post Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 15:55
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Mitigation and EH are not the same.

Mitigation relates to the offence(s), and why the seriousness should be downplayed (traffic conditions, weather conditions etc). However it's very unlikely these factors will change the outcome.

EH relates to how a ban would affect you and particularly others.
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Jlc
post Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 16:35
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QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 16:55) *
Mitigation relates to the offence(s), and why the seriousness should be downplayed (traffic conditions, weather conditions etc). However it's very unlikely these factors will change the outcome.

For these offences there's rarely any way to mitigate. The sentencing guidelines will be followed closely as NJ detailed above.

Indeed, it's potentially easier to aggravate - especially if you give the impression it's 'ok' to speed if it's quiet or dry for example...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 - 16:35


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bigmeech301
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 08:24
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Hello all,

Just a little update on my situation and some advice needed,

I received the SJPN and sent of a statement as well a character statement from my director, unfortunately the SJPN referred me to a court hearing for disqualification. The court hearing is set for the 24th of November, both of the speeding offences are going to be heard together.

I have written an exceptional hardship plea to use in court and I have also got my previous character statement from my director. I am very nervous about going to court, I have no idea what the lay out will be and how it will proceed (especially considering we are in the middle of a lockdown).

My questions are;

How will I be able to present my statements to the magistrate, do I simply hand it to them and they read it or will I need to narrate it myself?

In terms of the fine that i will inevitably receive, how will I show proof of income, is a payslip enough for a judge to determine I am telling the truth regarding my salary?

Can anyone have a quick glance over my EH plea, I would appreciate some pointers or any tips regarding my day in magistrates court as I have never been before?
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The Rookie
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 09:38
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Take copies of the statement to pass to the bench.

You won’t be asked to prove your income unless they have some reason to suspect you completed the MC100 incorrectly, this practically never happens, by all means take your last payslip if you want but I doubt it will leave your pocket.

Why not just post your EH plea here for everyone to peruse for you? That’s what usually happens.


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4hS6TcBkX
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 12:25
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 09:38) *
Take copies of the statement to pass to the bench.

You won’t be asked to prove your income unless they have some reason to suspect you completed the MC100 incorrectly, this practically never happens, by all means take your last payslip if you want but I doubt it will leave your pocket.

Why not just post your EH plea here for everyone to peruse for you? That’s what usually happens.


For what it's worth - and I'm not sure if it differs for this type of hearing in specific - the magistrates completely ignored my MC100 form at my hearing and instead opted to directly ask my earnings. They didn't mention expenses or anything found on the form, but they didn't question my earnings either (probably because it would result in the max fine anyway..). So it might be worth taking that pay slip just in case.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 14:17
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Expenses are not taken into account unless they are exceptional, which is probably why they didn’t ask for them!


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bigmeech301
post Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 08:28
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.

This post has been edited by bigmeech301: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 - 20:34
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AntonyMMM
post Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 09:03
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QUOTE (bigmeech301 @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 09:24) *
I received the SJPN and sent of a statement as well a character statement from my director, unfortunately the SJPN referred me to a court hearing for disqualification.


You need to clarify this - I assume the SJPN haven't given any sentence and have referred the whole matter to the court hearing ? ( rather than already awarded 6 points for each offence and then referred to the court for an EH hearing).

In which case you need two separate (and different) arguments ready....

1) Before the magistrate(s) sets the sentence you will be given an opportunity to make representation. This is where you can use the information about the offences being out of character, lapse of judgement on an empty road during lockdown and your booking onto a safe driving course. You can stress the essential nature of your work and present the character statement from your employer (although they mean very little in most cases). The whole point of this element is to persuade the magistrates to not give you six points for each offence - perhaps 5 + 5, or even 5+6. You can also stress that you appreciate any further transgression would mean a ban, and what an effect this case has already had on your driving.

2) IF, after that you do get given six points for each - then you will be asked if you want to present an EH argument about why any totting ban should be reduced (or not imposed at all) - this is where you stress the EXCEPTIONAL effect a ban would have - and concentrate on the effect on others. Losing your job is not normally considered exceptional - it would apply to many people who get disqualified. Your proposed EH reasons seem to consist of little else at the moment.

As it stands your EH argument is very weak, I would concentrate on stage 1 - and try and avoid getting the 2 x six points.

This post has been edited by AntonyMMM: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 09:16
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bigmeech301
post Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 09:07
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The response I received after submitting my SJPN was that both offences have been referred to court. In the description it just says "Ref; Disqual"
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AntonyMMM
post Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 09:15
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If The SJPN had dealt with the case, there would be mention of the fine and points awarded, which they realised they couldn't do without it becoming a totting case - they will have just passed the whole thing over to the court - so the issue of points will still be there to argue, concentrate on that.

100 on a motorway is a potential six points but not an absolute certainty, and you could get away with ten or eleven points with an apology and a bit of contrition.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 11:42
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The Single justice could have sentenced you with points for the offences and then referred it to the court for the totting disqualification hearing, but then those sentences would be mentioned, so it seems they believe a disqualification for either/both offences should be considered as part of the sentencing.

There will be 3 on the Bench, 3 magistrates or a district judge and 2 magistrates. If its 3 Mag's there will also be a legal adviser. I always suggest 5 copies, 3 for the bench, one for legal adviser and one for the prosecution. The adviser and prosecution shouldn't interfere with an EH finding by the bench as its a finding of fact (not law), but it's a reasonable courtesy and sets the right tone and anything you can do to put them onside isn't going to hurt!


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southpaw82
post Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 11:56
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 11:42) *
or a district judge and 2 magistrates.

District judges sit alone.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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NewJudge
post Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 15:17
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Reading your missive to the Court, I agree with Anthony: it does not present a very convincing case of "Exceptional Hardship." It basically says you will lose your job and so be unable to contribute to the household budget. The guidelines to Magistrates dealing with EH arguments have been reinforced recently (I won't say they have changed because they haven't). The reinforcement makes it clear that any hardship has to be exceptional. Anybody who has to drive either to get to or undertake their work will face hardship if they lose their driving licence. It would apply to vast numbers of drivers and the circumstances they would find themselves in are not, therefore, exceptional. The court will be interested to know why you cannot seek alternative employment, perhaps in a different field of work. They will also be interested in your household's finances and why it is your mother cannot sustain herself alone (as she would have to if you moved out). You've explained none of this.

As I explained earlier, I would be extremely surprised if you escape with fewer than twelve points and I think you should hope for the best but prepare for the worst. A "Character Reference" is not really a great help with speeding matters and it certainly won't help with your EH argument (which I think you should concentrate your efforts on). Far better from your employer would be something that illustrates how hardship may be visited on others if they have to let you go. Do you have regular customers who rely on you personally and who would suffer if your employer had to replace you? Would any of your colleagues suffer if they had to pick up your work? That would be of more benefit than your employer saying what a jolly fine chap you are and they cannot imagine you breaking the speed limit.
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