Tfl ticket for parking under a flyover |
Tfl ticket for parking under a flyover |
Tue, 31 Mar 2020 - 15:29
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 18 May 2019 Member No.: 103,928 |
Hi there,
Hope someone can advise. I got a ticket from tfl for parking under a flyover I did not see any signage of road marking and the ticket was fixed on my windscreen on 27/1/20 and On the same day I wrote a letter making the representation and sent it on by recorded delivery on 30/1/20 but I did not get a reply, I did check the Royal Mail website and it showed it was delivered and signed for on 31/1/20 On the 16/3/20 I got a notice to owner saying I have to pay £130 or make representation in 28 days. Any idea what I can do as they did not reply to my first representation. Thanks |
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Tue, 31 Mar 2020 - 15:29
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Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 13:25
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#41
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Member Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 18 May 2019 Member No.: 103,928 |
Hi
I have attached the evidence as requested. https://ibb.co/K27KbH3 https://ibb.co/pvtr242 https://ibb.co/ch9fWDm https://ibb.co/VvtTdN3 https://ibb.co/YX70sLM https://ibb.co/6PFHzkg https://ibb.co/Q8Vvy2s https://ibb.co/cczxYsf https://ibb.co/pLTmh20 https://ibb.co/LCXj2Hr https://ibb.co/KbjtGtn https://ibb.co/VYfQqPC https://ibb.co/9gfXtcj https://ibb.co/z4zvj7x https://ibb.co/XWxc8fP https://ibb.co/P12hff0 https://ibb.co/fHvtZhm https://ibb.co/4Spf0C8 https://ibb.co/xjWRXtR https://ibb.co/YBQNKVt https://ibb.co/gvCsVkg https://ibb.co/gT9jhrh https://ibb.co/NpqqL2f https://ibb.co/p2j23jp https://ibb.co/VBxKzW1 https://ibb.co/xCLfrHg https://ibb.co/TPmrtrt https://ibb.co/80mNJXS Thanks really appreciate it. |
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Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 13:27
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#42
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Repost in 2 or 3 posts using the BBCodes - you can find the BBCode in the embed codes under the pics. The codes can also be picked up from a pop up menu on the right of the screen.
This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 13:56 |
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Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 16:14
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#43
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Don't worry about the BB codes, there's way to much to post on the thread and it would make things manageable. More importantly:
1) When is the case due to be decided? The tribunal should have sent you confirmation of this. 2) Are your representations (both formal and informal) included in the evidence pack, together with the informal rejection and the informal Notice of Rejection? If yes, please post them up too. It might be easier if you make a shared folder on google drive, one drive or dropbox, but you can use ibb.co if you prefer. Make sure the dates of all documents are visible, this is vitally important. So far the strands of your appeal would seem to be that: 1) You concede the contravention. 2) The will / may flaw. 3) TFL's decision to resile from its commitment to re-offer the discount. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 17:35
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#44
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Does the definition of al road apply ?
Tfl are presenting their summary as evidence. It isn't This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 17:36 -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 20:42
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#45
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Does the definition of al road apply ? The s142 RTRA definition would seem to, what were your thoughts? -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 29 Jul 2020 - 12:11
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#46
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
you are under the flyover its not a part of the road it does not go anywhere either for vehicles or for pedestrians
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 29 Jul 2020 - 13:04
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#47
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
you are under the flyover its not a part of the road it does not go anywhere either for vehicles or for pedestrians If I wanted to walk from the Bow Muslim Cultural Centre to McDonalds I'd walk exactly where the OP parked his car? -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 29 Jul 2020 - 21:03
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#48
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Member Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 18 May 2019 Member No.: 103,928 |
Hi
The hearing is on 05/08/20 by video and they sent it by email. I only received I rejection letter they did not reply to my informal representation letter I sent. https://ibb.co/0DDwrqK https://ibb.co/dDqxb4N Thanks This post has been edited by PCN fines: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 - 21:06 |
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Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 09:11
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#49
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I need a copy of your informal representation and the Royal Mail tracking number.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 14:19
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#50
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Informal reps are in the bundle CP IIRC so no doubt they were recieved .
I always like to find an argument against the contravention but it does not seem possible in this case so its technical issues all the way. CP i recall an more than one adjudicator having a go at TFL for there largely irrelevant summaries i would highlight what is relevant and what is not . An adjudicator on your side is no bad thing -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 15:05
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#51
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Member Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 18 May 2019 Member No.: 103,928 |
Hi please see attached second representation was not recorded as post office was closed.
https://ibb.co/nRLVsDY https://ibb.co/DRxYBVg https://ibb.co/9rwwfT0 https://ibb.co/nrswpF1 https://ibb.co/jvLbzP4 https://ibb.co/F4fwZLF https://ibb.co/9ZTp0Gd |
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Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 15:36
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#52
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Informal reps are in the bundle CP IIRC so no doubt they were recieved . I can't see the reps, the only thing I've found is this: So I need to see exactly what was sent in order to finish composing the appeal. Hi please see attached second representation was not recorded as post office was closed. https://ibb.co/nRLVsDY https://ibb.co/DRxYBVg https://ibb.co/9rwwfT0 https://ibb.co/nrswpF1 https://ibb.co/jvLbzP4 https://ibb.co/F4fwZLF https://ibb.co/9ZTp0Gd So did you forget to provide a contact address with the informal representation? Also are copies of your representations included in the TFL evidence bundle? This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 15:36 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 21:51
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#53
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Member Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 18 May 2019 Member No.: 103,928 |
1st letter https://ibb.co/VTP8hrk Yes I forgot the address but both letters are included in the tfl appeal bundle. 2nd letter https://ibb.co/pwGXJn9 https://ibb.co/CPK3ndx Let me know if you can see in now Thanks |
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Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 13:32
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#54
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Well I think we need to drop the penalty exceeds ground because let's me honest, it's not the council's fault you didn't provide an address with the informal representations and the only options they had were to issue an NTO (at which point the full penalty must be demanded) or cancel the charge.
Draft appeal: https://bit.ly/2BNuPow You must also upload the following cases from the Traffic Penalty Tribunal to the London Tribunals appeal portal, as the Traffic Penalty Tribunal doesn't have an online register so the adjudicator cannot look them up, you will find these in the PCN flaws database linked to in the sticky thread at the top of the council forum, look on the "adjudications" tab. 1) Anthony Hall v Kent County Council (with Tunbridge Wells BC) (JU-00042-1810, 07 December 2018) 2) David Chapman v Portsmouth City Council (PO00086-1811, 09 January 2019) 3) Mrs H v Worthing Borough Council (UW 05060M, 16 September 2015) 4) Ammar Abdul Hadi v Coventry City Council (CV00067-1902, 05 April 2019) -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 12:19
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#55
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Member Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 18 May 2019 Member No.: 103,928 |
Thank you do much for your help I will upload everything and update you on outcome.
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Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 20:43
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#56
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Member Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 18 May 2019 Member No.: 103,928 |
Hi,
I got a decision today unfortunately it is rejected pls see below. This is the same adjudicator that I know people have told me that rejected 5 case that was argued on basis on technicality. He just asked who wrote the appeal and that it was very detailed and what my job is and said he read and understood my incident. Then he said he will send me his decision and he wasn’t the adjudicator that was assigned for the hearing and didn’t say why it had changed. Is there anything that can be done. https://ibb.co/XXVNryF https://ibb.co/Msqgd3h Thanks |
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 18:40
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#57
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Member Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 18 May 2019 Member No.: 103,928 |
Hi,
Does anyone think I should ask the tribunal to review the decision. Thanks |
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 18:46
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#58
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Hi, Does anyone think I should ask the tribunal to review the decision. Thanks i cannot see one the adjudicator was entitled to find as they did -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 20:34
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#59
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,064 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
IMO, the adj was perfectly entitled to find as they did. We often argue here that when considered in its entirety a PCN is invalid because of confusing and contradictory references to 28-day periods etc. Here Styles found that as a whole the PCN did not convey any intention on the part of the authority to fetter their discretion, neither did he find that its wording as a whole departed from the mandatory requirement to any degree, let alone one which gave rise to a PI.
The regs require that...'the PCN must state.., not every word and every line etc.. Forensic examination of every word in every line without reference to overall context and meaning can lead to this sort of outcome. But of course the OP can apply for a review. |
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Thu, 13 Aug 2020 - 20:27
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#60
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The adjudicator was entitled to make the finding that he made, unfortunately the contravention was indefensible and with a technical argument like this it's always a bit of a gamble. Your case was a lot stronger than Anthony Hall but he won and you lost, sometimes it is luck of the draw.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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