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Tfl ticket for parking under a flyover
PCN fines
post Tue, 31 Mar 2020 - 15:29
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Hi there,

Hope someone can advise.
I got a ticket from tfl for parking under a flyover I did not see any signage of road marking and the ticket was fixed on my windscreen on 27/1/20 and On the same day I wrote a letter making the representation and sent it on by recorded delivery on 30/1/20 but I did not get a reply, I did check the Royal Mail website and it showed it was delivered and signed for on 31/1/20

On the 16/3/20 I got a notice to owner saying I have to pay £130 or make representation in 28 days.

Any idea what I can do as they did not reply to my first representation.

Thanks
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post Tue, 31 Mar 2020 - 15:29
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PCN fines
post Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 13:25
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Hi
I have attached the evidence as requested.

https://ibb.co/K27KbH3
https://ibb.co/pvtr242
https://ibb.co/ch9fWDm
https://ibb.co/VvtTdN3
https://ibb.co/YX70sLM
https://ibb.co/6PFHzkg
https://ibb.co/Q8Vvy2s
https://ibb.co/cczxYsf
https://ibb.co/pLTmh20
https://ibb.co/LCXj2Hr
https://ibb.co/KbjtGtn
https://ibb.co/VYfQqPC
https://ibb.co/9gfXtcj
https://ibb.co/z4zvj7x
https://ibb.co/XWxc8fP
https://ibb.co/P12hff0
https://ibb.co/fHvtZhm
https://ibb.co/4Spf0C8
https://ibb.co/xjWRXtR
https://ibb.co/YBQNKVt
https://ibb.co/gvCsVkg
https://ibb.co/gT9jhrh
https://ibb.co/NpqqL2f
https://ibb.co/p2j23jp
https://ibb.co/VBxKzW1
https://ibb.co/xCLfrHg
https://ibb.co/TPmrtrt
https://ibb.co/80mNJXS

Thanks really appreciate it.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 13:27
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Repost in 2 or 3 posts using the BBCodes - you can find the BBCode in the embed codes under the pics. The codes can also be picked up from a pop up menu on the right of the screen.



This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 13:56
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cp8759
post Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 16:14
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Don't worry about the BB codes, there's way to much to post on the thread and it would make things manageable. More importantly:

1) When is the case due to be decided? The tribunal should have sent you confirmation of this.
2) Are your representations (both formal and informal) included in the evidence pack, together with the informal rejection and the informal Notice of Rejection? If yes, please post them up too. It might be easier if you make a shared folder on google drive, one drive or dropbox, but you can use ibb.co if you prefer. Make sure the dates of all documents are visible, this is vitally important.

So far the strands of your appeal would seem to be that:

1) You concede the contravention.

2) The will / may flaw.

3) TFL's decision to resile from its commitment to re-offer the discount.


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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 17:35
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Does the definition of al road apply ?

Tfl are presenting their summary as evidence. It isn't

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 17:36


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cp8759
post Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 20:42
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 28 Jul 2020 - 18:35) *
Does the definition of al road apply ?

The s142 RTRA definition would seem to, what were your thoughts?


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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 29 Jul 2020 - 12:11
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you are under the flyover its not a part of the road it does not go anywhere either for vehicles or for pedestrians


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cp8759
post Wed, 29 Jul 2020 - 13:04
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 29 Jul 2020 - 13:11) *
you are under the flyover its not a part of the road it does not go anywhere either for vehicles or for pedestrians

If I wanted to walk from the Bow Muslim Cultural Centre to McDonalds I'd walk exactly where the OP parked his car?


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PCN fines
post Wed, 29 Jul 2020 - 21:03
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Hi

The hearing is on 05/08/20 by video and they sent it by email.

I only received I rejection letter they did not reply to my informal representation letter I sent.

https://ibb.co/0DDwrqK

https://ibb.co/dDqxb4N


Thanks

This post has been edited by PCN fines: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 - 21:06
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cp8759
post Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 09:11
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I need a copy of your informal representation and the Royal Mail tracking number.


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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 14:19
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Informal reps are in the bundle CP IIRC so no doubt they were recieved .

I always like to find an argument against the contravention but it does not seem possible in this case so its technical issues all the way.

CP i recall an more than one adjudicator having a go at TFL for there largely irrelevant summaries i would highlight what is relevant and what is not . An adjudicator on your side is no bad thing


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PCN fines
post Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 15:05
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Hi please see attached second representation was not recorded as post office was closed.

https://ibb.co/nRLVsDY
https://ibb.co/DRxYBVg
https://ibb.co/9rwwfT0
https://ibb.co/nrswpF1
https://ibb.co/jvLbzP4
https://ibb.co/F4fwZLF
https://ibb.co/9ZTp0Gd
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cp8759
post Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 15:36
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 15:19) *
Informal reps are in the bundle CP IIRC so no doubt they were recieved .

I can't see the reps, the only thing I've found is this:



So I need to see exactly what was sent in order to finish composing the appeal.


QUOTE (PCN fines @ Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 16:05) *


So did you forget to provide a contact address with the informal representation?

Also are copies of your representations included in the TFL evidence bundle?

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 15:36


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PCN fines
post Thu, 30 Jul 2020 - 21:51
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1st letter

https://ibb.co/VTP8hrk

Yes I forgot the address but both letters are included in the tfl appeal bundle.

2nd letter

https://ibb.co/pwGXJn9
https://ibb.co/CPK3ndx



Let me know if you can see in now

Thanks
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cp8759
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 13:32
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Well I think we need to drop the penalty exceeds ground because let's me honest, it's not the council's fault you didn't provide an address with the informal representations and the only options they had were to issue an NTO (at which point the full penalty must be demanded) or cancel the charge.

Draft appeal: https://bit.ly/2BNuPow

You must also upload the following cases from the Traffic Penalty Tribunal to the London Tribunals appeal portal, as the Traffic Penalty Tribunal doesn't have an online register so the adjudicator cannot look them up, you will find these in the PCN flaws database linked to in the sticky thread at the top of the council forum, look on the "adjudications" tab.

1) Anthony Hall v Kent County Council (with Tunbridge Wells BC) (JU-00042-1810, 07 December 2018)
2) David Chapman v Portsmouth City Council (PO00086-1811, 09 January 2019)
3) Mrs H v Worthing Borough Council (UW 05060M, 16 September 2015)
4) Ammar Abdul Hadi v Coventry City Council (CV00067-1902, 05 April 2019)


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PCN fines
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 12:19
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Thank you do much for your help I will upload everything and update you on outcome.
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PCN fines
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 20:43
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Hi,

I got a decision today unfortunately it is rejected pls see below.
This is the same adjudicator that I know people have told me that rejected 5 case that was argued on basis on technicality.
He just asked who wrote the appeal and that it was very detailed and what my job is and said he read and understood my incident.
Then he said he will send me his decision and he wasn’t the adjudicator that was assigned for the hearing and didn’t say why it had changed.
Is there anything that can be done.

https://ibb.co/XXVNryF
https://ibb.co/Msqgd3h

Thanks
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PCN fines
post Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 18:40
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Hi,

Does anyone think I should ask the tribunal to review the decision.

Thanks
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 18:46
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QUOTE (PCN fines @ Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 19:40) *
Hi,

Does anyone think I should ask the tribunal to review the decision.

Thanks


i cannot see one the adjudicator was entitled to find as they did


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hcandersen
post Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 20:34
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IMO, the adj was perfectly entitled to find as they did. We often argue here that when considered in its entirety a PCN is invalid because of confusing and contradictory references to 28-day periods etc. Here Styles found that as a whole the PCN did not convey any intention on the part of the authority to fetter their discretion, neither did he find that its wording as a whole departed from the mandatory requirement to any degree, let alone one which gave rise to a PI.

The regs require that...'the PCN must state.., not every word and every line etc..

Forensic examination of every word in every line without reference to overall context and meaning can lead to this sort of outcome.

But of course the OP can apply for a review.
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cp8759
post Thu, 13 Aug 2020 - 20:27
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The adjudicator was entitled to make the finding that he made, unfortunately the contravention was indefensible and with a technical argument like this it's always a bit of a gamble. Your case was a lot stronger than Anthony Hall but he won and you lost, sometimes it is luck of the draw.


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